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Author Topic: How to stack delta flowtails?  (Read 2666 times)
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AntBTas
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« on: October 26, 2012, 04:03 AM »

Hi there everyone,

I've just got myself two spirit of air delta flowtails, and wondering how to stack them?  If you're not familiar with them, they are bridled like this:



and they have two small holes through the sail where the bridle attaches to sail around the spine:



I thought that maybe I could put some line through the existing holes and use it to connect to the bridle of the next kite in the stack if that makes sense?  I know with stunt kites you attach it like that to area where the bridle normally attaches but I don't really have a clue about this stuff, but it looks like fun and want to give it a go  Smiley

regards

Ant
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 04:05 AM by AntBTas » Logged
thief
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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2012, 04:17 AM »

you could do a reverse bridle on the back of the kite...that would ba a quick way to do it....
another option would be to open up the seam on the center of the back of the kite and reassemble with a "keel" that points upwards...this would be more structurally favorable since it would spread the strain over more area....
another option would to cut and reinforce a circle where, if the flying line continued straight through the kite, the line would pass...then just larkshead the lower kite onto the line threading the flying line through up to the second kite.....

how big are they?

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AntBTas
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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2012, 04:57 AM »

you could do a reverse bridle on the back of the kite...that would ba a quick way to do it....
another option would be to open up the seam on the center of the back of the kite and reassemble with a "keel" that points upwards...this would be more structurally favorable since it would spread the strain over more area....
another option would to cut and reinforce a circle where, if the flying line continued straight through the kite, the line would pass...then just larkshead the lower kite onto the line threading the flying line through up to the second kite.....

how big are they?


Thanks for the idea's Thief, they have a 2 metre wingspan with a 7 metre tails so they are fairly large.  I attached my 96 foot transition tail to my blue one tonight and it easily lifts it:



by cutting a whole is this the type of thing you mean on the Gomberg site?

http://www.gombergkites.com/G-PYR9.JPG

it's what they do with the ghost deltas...I did think of that but I shudder at the thought of cutting holes in my precious kites lol Shocked

regards

Ant
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thief
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« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2012, 06:26 AM »

correcto mundo!
Yep, just a small hole is needed...

Robert Brasington uses the second method i mentioned where he essentially puts a reverse keel on the back of the kite.....and has a pigtail on it to attach a hank of line to go up to the next one...
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TBHinPhilly
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« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2012, 08:02 AM »

David Gomberg suggests a small reinforced slit in the skin next to the keel - then one continuous flying line.  Using a slit allows some movement of the kites and flight angle. I tried this method with some pyro fish and it worked.

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mikenchico
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« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2012, 08:20 AM »

No, no, no....  Since they are keel-less deltas and the current bridle is connected directly to the spine you had it right with your first thoughts. Two even length train lines connected straight back to the second kite using the current holes keeps the load directly off the front bridle and places it exactly where expected on the second kite. You might tie a heavier bridle for the lead kite. Alternately you could do a reverse bridle through those existing holes and a single line back to the second off it but you will spend some time finding the right balance point on that back bridle. I would try your original idea, I think it's workable without any   irreversible mods to the kites
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thief
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« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2012, 08:40 AM »

i guess the unasked question is: How far apart do you want them?   I was thinking that you wanted them a good distance........i know that I would....
but if you wanted them closer together (~3') then you could have them stacked by two bridle line add ons...
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AntBTas
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« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2012, 12:09 AM »

Thanks everyone  Smiley

As to how far apart I want them, I thought I've maybe try somewhere between 1 and 2 metres (3 to 6 feet) to start with?

I think I'll try the two even length train line approach first as mikenchico mentioned it seems to make sense to me and it doesn't have any irreversible mods to the kite, which I was quite worried about doing   Grin

I'll post photo's when I can

Kind regards

Ant
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AntBTas
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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2012, 02:47 AM »

Just tried with 2m train lines, flies well but can definitely see why you would want longer lines.  From the point of view of the flier it looked like one kite, with the back one occasionally appearing.  I think I'll try 5m train lines next....

Ant
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mikenchico
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« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2012, 10:52 PM »

You didn't have any problems with the kites trying to go in opposite directions? I was worried that using two lines like that might get them dancing a bit with one trying to steer the other even though they are pretty stable kites. Longer lines would help if there was a tendency to that in your first test. Hope it works out for you, love the Flowtails.

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AntBTas
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« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2012, 02:48 AM »

You didn't have any problems with the kites trying to go in opposite directions? I was worried that using two lines like that might get them dancing a bit with one trying to steer the other even though they are pretty stable kites. Longer lines would help if there was a tendency to that in your first test. Hope it works out for you, love the Flowtails.




They did seem to fight each other a bit when climbing, but once at height they seemed to stabilise quite well.  The wind was pretty sketchy though, very light and probably not the ideal test.  They would also get a bit unstable when the wind dropped too much for them to fly well, and they started to drop from the sky.

The real test will be later in the week when I'm hoping for a bit more of a consistent wind, good to know longer lines would be even better.

I love my flowtails as well, even if the stacking doesn't work (but so far I think it will) I love flying them individually.  What I do in light winds is  attach them to either end of my home made roll up bag as an anchor, and then practise with my trick kites while the flowtails fly high over head.

I'd like to get one of the rainbow 6 streamer flag sets from Gomberg:
http://www.gombergkites.com/E-FLAGS2.JPG
 to add to the line underneath, I think they would look awesome  Smiley
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 02:56 AM by AntBTas » Logged
thief
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« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2012, 04:31 AM »

They will behave even better I imagine with more space between them....oooooooo... you could put the streamer flags between them - I am doing the same sort of thing with a stack of Celtic boreal deltas with premier's black and white flag line in between them.

Sound all good!
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AntBTas
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« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2012, 03:14 AM »

They will behave even better I imagine with more space between them....oooooooo... you could put the streamer flags between them - I am doing the same sort of thing with a stack of Celtic boreal deltas with premier's black and white flag line in between them.

Sound all good!

Wow, between them!  Hadn't thought of that, I wonder how it would affect their flight...have you got a photo of your set up?  My kite fund is definitely in the red at the moment but as soon as it's back in the black I'll be ordering the streamer flags Smiley
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thief
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« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2012, 04:55 AM »

Pictures today if all goes well........kites and line in the baja for flying at lunch
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thief
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« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2012, 09:52 AM »


Cellphone shot....more pix later on when i make it home...

5' on top....then ~8'.....then the 11'.....
weird winds so at one point the 5' dropped below the erest and the line got wrangled into the tails.....just spun like a top....
Cannot wait for some clean wind...

I am also planning on making some banners to add onto the line as well...~10' long or so.....
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 09:54 AM by thief » Logged

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