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Author Topic: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)  (Read 25837 times)
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thief
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« Reply #45 on: February 21, 2013, 03:22 AM »

how tight is the skin that it needs to settle in???
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« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2013, 08:32 AM »

thief,

The construction of this type of Canard causes the rear sail to be under a bit of tension, since you’re pulling the center of the sail downward to the center spine to provide dihedral for stability and incident angle between the front and rear sails.  I use two layers (2 top and 2 bottom) of Dacron in the front and rear portions of the rear sail.  I also double loop the line through each hole.

The front sail is just tight enough to keep it from dipping under its own weight and provide the incidence angle between the front and rear sails.

The settling of the sail relates mostly to the minor puckering you get where you stitch, such as with the single folded hem around the curved perimeter of the sail and the seams for the sail panels.

The frame (center spine and spreader) is comprised of thin wall 0.125 in. carbon tubes, with a 0.05 in. carbon rod along the center of the front sail, and 0.04 in. carbon rods used as curved battens for the tips of the rear sail.  In earlier designs of this size (48 in. long, 42 in. wide) I have tried thinner solid carbon rods, but they were not stiff enough.  The rear sail on this type of kite would flap like a bird under load until I replaced the spreader with a thin wall 0.125 in. carbon tube.

Doug
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 12:24 PM by Doug S » Logged

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sugarbaker
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« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2013, 11:12 AM »

I finished building my Rapere Canard kite this weekend. 


Looks excellent Doug. What would I have to do to convince you to share the plans so I could build one too?

Regardless, I'm excited to see some video and more photos as you send it into flight!

Stephen
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« Reply #48 on: February 22, 2013, 10:27 AM »

sugarbaker,

I couldn't wait and I flew my Rapere in my front yard in winds gusting to 7 mph.  The Rapere, along with the retrimmed Arrow flew great.  Grin

I will start working on the Rapere plans for public use, which will have a 14 panel version (as in the pictures) and a simpler 4 panel version.

Doug
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« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2013, 02:47 AM »

Doug, this news makes me very happy.  I can't wait to build one! Thank you in advance for this gift you are working on!
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« Reply #50 on: March 03, 2013, 07:37 PM »

Fellow Kite Builders,

The updated plans and pictures for my Rapere are now at Post No. 72.

Enjoy,

Doug
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 12:25 PM by Doug S » Logged

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Texanpilot
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« Reply #51 on: March 03, 2013, 09:10 PM »

Have you flown it enough to give us a flight report?

I've been watching this thread quite closely, as I've been wanting to add another glider to my kite bag (I have a Laima), and trying to decide which one to build.

Thanks for all your work on this and your willingness to share it.
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« Reply #52 on: March 04, 2013, 06:19 AM »

Texanpilot,

Thank you for your interest.  Due to the weather up here in the northeast, I have only flow the Rapere on a few occasions, mostly in my front yard that is 60 by 60 feet.  My last flight was this past Saturday with a light wind and snow flurries.  I only stopped flying due to a loop-knot in my 50 pound spectra flying line.

I am extremely pleased with the fight characteristics of this kite, which is why I have offered the plans to this kite community.  With the 9 in. long piece of 0.2100 carbon rod as nose weight that provides the forward center of gravity indicated on the plans, I can toss the kite like a paper airplane, allow it to glide for 30 feet, then apply slight line tension where the kite rotates to the climb position, and more tension to allow the kite to climb like a conventional single line kite.  When you provide slack to the line during the climb, the kite transitions back into a glider, and glides in the direction it is facing.  Very slight line tension during the glide will allow you to turn the kite to you.  In my limited flying time with the kite, I was able to easily steer and glide the kite back into my hands.

Please note that since this kite is framed with thin wall 0.125 carbon tubes and has quite a bit of sail area, it will get overloaded in winds above 5 mph.  The provided design and pictures represent the current configuration of my constructed kite, with the forward center of gravity.  In the future, I will experiment with a little less nose weight (6 to 9 in. long 0.2100 carbon rods).  If the weather cooperates this coming weekend, I will try to take some in flight pictures and video.

The Rapere is the third generation of my canard kites.  Many thanks to Leong Ceewan and his Plutz designs, which inspired me to develop the Arrow and Rapere.  My goal with Arrow was to make a canard kite with the front sail going all the way to the front tip of the center spine, and have a uniquely shaped rear sail, like the X-29.  My goal with the Rapere was to maximize the sail area for this type of kite, which would reduce the sail loading and make the kite more responsive to slight changes in a light wind.  Both the Arrow and Rapere are a real joy to fly, with the Rapere being my favorite because it makes me look good when I am flying it.

I also own a Laima and was very disappointed with its flight characteristics.  I purchased the Laima because I like the looks of the kite, but it is not a glider.  Over the past three years, I have designed and constructed numerous single sail and canard type no/low wind single line kites, with wing spans ranging from 30 to 96 inches.  As indicated above, the Rapere is by far my most favorite kite of this type to fly.

If you wish to build this kite, you should have some experience in building kites before constructing the Rapere, since the kite has 14 sail panels, and numerous reinforcements and connection lines.  I also provided a simpler version of the sail with only 4 panels.  Another individual that posts often on this forum is in the process of building a Rapere.  I hope he finds time to post his experience in constructing and flying the kite.

If you should have any other questions, please just send me a note.

Doug
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 12:25 PM by Doug S » Logged

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« Reply #53 on: March 04, 2013, 06:27 AM »

yeah..i would love to try one of these..but i know that at this time i do not have skills to build one to the specifics needed......
More pictures definitely!!!
This looks great Doug
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« Reply #54 on: March 09, 2013, 05:47 PM »

thief,

I got out today and had a blast flying the Rapere, with about 6 in. of melting snow cover on our local sport fields.  The Rapere loves 1-2 mph winds and can cover a lot of ground on the downwind glide run.  It fly’s nice and slow in smaller areas with 0-1 mph winds.  With the thin wall carbon tubes, the upper wind speed is about 4 mph.  The wind speeds were measured at the ground level, so the actual upper winds were stronger.

The following links provide three of the best pictures of the Rapere in flight.  It was fun flying the Rapere with one hand, and trying to take pictures with the other.  This kite can fly and land itself just fine when you accidentally drop the line, which I did to take some of the pictures.  The last picture one is my favorite.   Grin

DKS Rapere - Top on the Tow:  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSZ0gtR0ZwUXZkLXM/edit?usp=sharing

DKS Rapere - On the Glide:  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSWjYtRWE2bEk5cU0/edit?usp=sharing

DKS Rapere - Gliding into the Sun:  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSNFc3a3ZVNnFTRkk/edit?usp=sharing

I updated my prior post that provides the plans and the pictures.  The Rapere is now using a fix bridle that works the best.  The Side View Plans provide the revised bridle and the associated measurements.

Enjoy,

Doug   Wink
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 12:26 PM by Doug S » Logged

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« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2013, 06:44 PM »

I'm in the midst of building this fine kite... I'd discourage anyone from tackling his as a first build.  While it is not a large kite and I appreciate working with these small panels, I'll pass on that a proper layout and conceptualization of how the panels will unfold when sewn properly is important... if not critical. There are some pictures in the works from my own build that I will see about posting up this coming weekend. 
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« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2013, 07:19 PM »

I have built some kites before - a few airfoils (up to 5m), and a four-paneled rok and a roller (two panels on upper sail plus the rudder sandwiched between the two halves of the lower sail).  So I'd like to think that I can get the panel layout straight.

I look forward to Sugarbaker's build photos.

I do have a couple of questions:

1. How to measure the line stopper locations on the spine?  I don't see any figures, and some don't seem to line up straight with the edges of the sails.
2.  I'm thinking about using .75 oz ripstop for the sail, since I have plenty on hand.  Other than making the kite heavier, do you think that there will be any other problems? Would the spars need to be upsized to handle the higher sail weight?  I do understand that this may require re-figuring the nose weighting to keep the center of gravity at the proper place.

I'm thinking that the overall heavier weight may not be a terrible thing - for me.  My Laima switches from glider to regular kite pretty low on the wind scale, and most of the times I've had it out at the park the wind has been over that switching point.   I kind of want something that I can still maneuver and glide in the wind range just above the Laima, and was wondering if a bit heavier canard-type gilder would fit the bill.

Thanks again.
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« Reply #57 on: March 12, 2013, 07:51 AM »

Texanpilot,

Thank you for your interest in the Rapere.  The following provides my response to each of your questions:

“1.  How to measure the line stopper locations on the spine?  I don't see any figures, and some don't seem to line up straight with the edges of the sails.”

If you download the Side View Plan provided in my earlier post with the plans, each stopper location is illustrated along the center spine.  Also, each set of plans are provided in full scale.  Please note that I made some minor changes to the bridle (fixed) and line lengths on March 9, 2013, which are provided in the plans.  For your information, the stoppers are not glued in place.

The lines on the Front Sail that connect to the Center Spine are perpendicular to that sail surface.  The optional vertical line at the Leading Edge of the Rear Sail is parallel to these two other lines.

I now want to provide you some interesting observations regarding the optional vertical line.  This vertical line provides stability to the Leading Edge of the Rear Sail in winds from 2 to 4 mph, but is not desired in no/low wind conditions.  In no/low wind conditions, I disconnect this line to allow the Leading Edge of the Rear Sail to move vertically, thus automatically adjusting the Angle of Attack for the Rear Sail.  During the hand toss to launch the Rapere, the leading edge of Rear Sail moves upward, adjusting the entire Rear Sail angle, which reduces the angle between the Front and Rear Sails and allows for a flat glide.  When the Rapere slows down to normal glide speed, the Leading Edge moves back down, readjusts the entire Rear Sail and allows the Rapere to float.  It’s kind of cool to see this take place in flight.  I am currently experimenting with a longer vertical line that can be slide back on the center spine to hold the Leading Edge of the Rear Sail at the static (not flying) height above the Center Spine.  In no/low wind conditions, this line can be moved forward to the vertical location that will allow this line to be slack and allow the Leading Edge of the Rear Sail to move vertically.  This longer vertical line will prevent one from having to disconnect the line.

When I make lines with a loop on each end, I tie the first loop at one end of the line.  I then slip the loop over the end of my steel ruler, and make a mark at the desired length with a sharpie, where the mark will be the tip of the second loop.  I tie the second loop making sure the mark stays in the center at the tip.  The measurements provided in the Side View Plans take in account the loss of line length for a knot using the indicated 80 spectra line.

“2.  I'm thinking about using .75 oz ripstop for the sail, since I have plenty on hand. Other than making the kite heavier, do you think that there will be any other problems?  Would the spars need to be upsized to handle the higher sail weight?  I do understand that this may require re-figuring the nose weighting to keep the center of gravity at the proper place.  I'm thinking that the overall heavier weight may not be a terrible thing - for me.  My Laima switches from glider to regular kite pretty low on the wind scale, and most of the times I've had it out at the park the wind has been over that switching point. I kind of want something that I can still maneuver and glide in the wind range just above the Laima, and was wondering if a bit heavier canard-type gilder would fit the bill.”

I see no problem with you using what sail material you have on hand.  You indicated that you understand the kite will increase in weight and you will have to adjust the nose weight to get the desired Center of Gravity (CG).  I currently like the forward CG location.  Regarding the frame, it depends on what wind you are going to fly in.  I designed the Rapere for those nice light/no wind days during the summer and fall, which are quite common in the northeast.  This past weekend I flew the Rapere to take some in flight pictures, where the wind was ranging from 0 to 8 mph.  With the thin wall (light) 1/8” OD carbon rods, the sail would cause the frame to be overloaded in winds above 4 mph.  Please note my local flying field is in a slight valley in a low mountain range.  The wind was measured at the ground level and there was a strong vertical wind gradient.  If you want to fly in winds above 4 mph, you should consider using the thick wall (strong) 1/8” OD carbon rods.  I have not used these stronger rods in the Rapere, but will obtain them to see how they work out.

Sorry for being long winded in my response, but I learn something new each time I fly the Rapere, which I want to share with anyone interested in building this kite.

Enjoy,

Doug
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 12:26 PM by Doug S » Logged

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« Reply #58 on: March 20, 2013, 07:09 AM »

Back to building the lighter version of the Little Hawk (12 in. wing span).  I just love the Cuben material.  You can hot cut it and sew it.  You can even temporarily hold things in place with blue masking tape, and then carefully remove the tape with no damage to the material.  This stuff is great and well worth the money.  Grin

I should have two of the Little Hawks finished by the weekend.  I will post some pictures and the final weight.

I will be purchasing more of the Cuben material for some other entertaining very light kite builds.  Maybe a lighter version of my Hawk (24 in. wing span) and a smaller version of my Rapere (30 in. wing span).

Later,

Doug
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 12:27 PM by Doug S » Logged

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« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2013, 03:49 PM »

The attached file provides a picture of the completed sails for two Little Hawks, with the wing spars and center spines in place.  The sail material is made from Cuben.  The wing spars are 0.02 in. carbon rods and the center spine is a 0.03 in. carbon rod.  The left one is a view from the front, while the right one is a view from the back.  The current weight is about 0.75 grams each, so it looks like they will come in at the desired weight of about 1 gram each.  Just waiting for a roll of 10 lb. spectra to arrive to complete the assembly.

Doug

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