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Author Topic: Is slot Machine actually a 540 ...  (Read 3968 times)
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Wayner
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« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2012, 10:59 PM »

I tried this and no luck...
 I can do 540's. when i do the half axel for the slot, never can seem to get the timing right and/or could not get the kite to pause long eoungh to start the rotation.

I guess my biggest problem is finding the balance between enough slack and not so much that i lose control of the kite.

Still love to fly even though some tricks elude me

Any change for you to record some video?
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kepople
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« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2012, 01:48 PM »

1 in a row!
Got a chance to try today again. I got one good on iniptiated from the half axel.

After that, attempts resulted in a tip wrap, or during the half axel the nose pitched too high above horizontal. Wind was 10+ so i was hanging out at the edge of the wind window. A few times the tug to initaiate the rotation must have been too hard and the result was the kite would flip on its back and wrap up.
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rudyy
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« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2012, 03:11 PM »

That is interesting.  When I do horizontal slot, my hand movements are exactly the same as when I do the 540.  So flying horizontally from right to left with both lines in tension, I extend my left hand to flare the kite and then give a tug with my right hand to initiate the 360 spin; then regain tension and let it continue on flying from right to left.

So basically flying horizontally, diagonally and vertically, I use the same hand movements in all cases to flare the kite and spin it.

And now I understand why people said they pop the half axel first to flare the kite before popping the line with the same hand again to initiate the spin.  I think popping that half axel to flare the kite has the same effect as pushing with the opposite hand that I am doing.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 04:14 PM by rudyy » Logged
Ca Ike
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« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2012, 04:30 PM »

1 in a row!
Got a chance to try today again. I got one good on iniptiated from the half axel.

After that, attempts resulted in a tip wrap, or during the half axel the nose pitched too high above horizontal. Wind was 10+ so i was hanging out at the edge of the wind window. A few times the tug to initaiate the rotation must have been too hard and the result was the kite would flip on its back and wrap up.
This usually happens because you don't give enough offhand slack and you stop the rotation causing the kite to flip.
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kepople
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« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2012, 06:59 PM »

You logic is good. I can see where the left hand push would cause the nose to flare.

I could not get enough to get the nose to flare like this.... Guess i need to take some more steps like i do with the 540.

So i need to add more slack with left hand when i pop the half axel?
Thats the balance point because i will put too much slack in the half axel and have to step back to get it to fly off again.

That is interesting.  When I do horizontal slot, my hand movements are exactly the same as when I do the 540.  So flying horizontally from right to left with both lines in tension, I extend my left hand to flare the kite and then give a tug with my right hand to initiate the 360 spin; then regain tension and let it continue on flying from right to left.

So basically flying horizontally, diagonally and vertically, I use the same hand movements in all cases to flare the kite and spin it.

And now I understand why people said they pop the half axel first to flare the kite before popping the line with the same hand again to initiate the spin.  I think popping that half axel to flare the kite has the same effect as pushing with the opposite hand that I am doing.
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rudyy
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« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2012, 07:23 PM »

I think some people do both i.e. pushing one hand and popping the other hand to flare the kite and some just do the pop.  For me, I just do the push. 

When I do the push, I do it pretty hard with the hand fully extended to the front and with one foot stepping forward to generate lots of slack to get the kite flare.

So, I think there are multiple ways (hand movements) to accomplish the slot machine.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 07:26 PM by rudyy » Logged
tpatter
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« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2012, 08:25 PM »

Doing both is half as difficult as either on its own.  Smiley. So, the flyers that make it look easy generally use both. 
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rudyy
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« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2012, 06:26 AM »

I think I am going to try doing both the push and pop at the same time and see how it goes.  Smiley
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kepople
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« Reply #38 on: December 25, 2012, 12:22 PM »

So you are going to Pushwith your left hand, pop with right hand to achieve flare, thentug right again for rotation, and slack left hand?
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #39 on: December 25, 2012, 12:56 PM »

So you are going to Pushwith your left hand, pop with right hand to achieve flare, thentug right again for rotation, and slack left hand?

Let me see if I can clarify a bit.  There are two ways to do the half axel.  First and most common (easiest IMO) is to let the top wing back a bit then pop that wing for the flare.  Second and easier to mess up is to slack the bottom wing as you pop the top wing.  With the first method you have more control as the kite goes into the flare because the tension in the off hand keeps the bottom wing from over rotating and you can adjust that tension to get just the right lift in the bottom wing.

With the second method you can give too much slack too easily and if you try to take up that slack you will get a tip wrap.  Also if the pop and slack aren't timed right you can end up in a tip wrap.  Pop too hard with slack in the bottom and you will over rotate into an almost insane or the kite will over rotate 90 degrees and try to roll up.

One way you can experiment is to pop into the flare and use line tension control to get into a down wind glide.  Doing this with both methods I found method one easiest to control and method two easier to crash.
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kepople
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« Reply #40 on: December 25, 2012, 05:30 PM »

I do the half axel with method #1. I will try the downwind glide for an expiriment...
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tpatter
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« Reply #41 on: December 25, 2012, 05:44 PM »

Just my opinion, but the 'both hands moving at the same time method' is important in order to do the comete, for example.   It just makes everything easier, you slack one hand while popping the other most always - it's a basic skill that you will use all the time. 

Tom
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #42 on: December 25, 2012, 07:17 PM »

I do the half axel with method #1. I will try the downwind glide for an expiriment...
Once you learn how to do this transition you will almost never get another tip wrap.  The line sensitivity you get from working on unusual transitions or really learning to control fades (maintaining as well as sliding them around) and slides (raising , lowering and reversing) as well as a normal downwind glide from a dive flare or top of the window downturn flare can increase your connection to the kite a lot.  It will also help you fly better in inland winds because you will start to feel the change in line tension as the wind changes and you will learn how to adjust faster and smoother. 

Just my opinion, but the 'both hands moving at the same time method' is important in order to do the comete, for example.   It just makes everything easier, you slack one hand while popping the other most always - it's a basic skill that you will use all the time. 

Tom
For me even in tricks like the Comete, cascade that seem like your doing both at the same time I find there is always a delay between the two even though it may be a split second the delay is still there.  Pay close attention when  your flying Tom and you will probably be surprised at how often you add in that delay in hand movement to maintain the right line tension.

When helping other fliers learn lately I have gotten away from talking about slack and talk about the line tension instead. How much line tension you keep through a trick can make a big difference on how the kite flows and how well you can recover.
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DD
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« Reply #43 on: December 25, 2012, 07:55 PM »

I do the half axel with method #1. I will try the downwind glide for an expiriment...
Once you learn how to do this transition you will almost never get another tip wrap.  The line sensitivity you get from working on unusual transitions or really learning to control fades (maintaining as well as sliding them around) and slides (raising , lowering and reversing) as well as a normal downwind glide from a dive flare or top of the window downturn flare can increase your connection to the kite a lot.  It will also help you fly better in inland winds because you will start to feel the change in line tension as the wind changes and you will learn how to adjust faster and smoother. 

Just my opinion, but the 'both hands moving at the same time method' is important in order to do the comete, for example.   It just makes everything easier, you slack one hand while popping the other most always - it's a basic skill that you will use all the time. 

Tom
For me even in tricks like the Comete, cascade that seem like your doing both at the same time I find there is always a delay between the two even though it may be a split second the delay is still there.  Pay close attention when  your flying Tom and you will probably be surprised at how often you add in that delay in hand movement to maintain the right line tension.

When helping other fliers learn lately I have gotten away from talking about slack and talk about the line tension instead. How much line tension you keep through a trick can make a big difference on how the kite flows and how well you can recover.
I agree. The amount of tension does seem to come across better then slack in print. The variables of speed and intensity of movement are  something that is tough to describe in words and can be very wind speed dependant. The videos and  forum discussions are good but I find I learn more and can explain better to someone else in person.
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kepople
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« Reply #44 on: December 25, 2012, 08:50 PM »

Just my opinion, but the 'both hands moving at the same time method' is important in order to do the comete, for example.   It just makes everything easier, you slack one hand while popping the other most always - it's a basic skill that you will use all the time. 

Tom

Yes i have to slack the other hand... Sometimes this is the problem because i put too much slack in the off hand. The result is a slow rotation or the nose rising too high.
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