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Author Topic: new Will Sturdy kite?  (Read 4028 times)
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madhabitz
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« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2012, 01:14 PM »

Just checked the date on the fade picture. Feb 27, 2012. Looks like it's been spending some quality time with will getting tuned up nicely. Smiley

Nice to see designers actually testing their products prior to selling them Wink

Whats that supposed to mean?
Likely a reference to another thread having to do with Lam's kites. Seems like he does have several people testing them, tho I am not privy to any deals they might have. All in all, it just seems like a snarky comment best left unsaid.

Nancy
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2012, 01:44 PM »

Just checked the date on the fade picture. Feb 27, 2012. Looks like it's been spending some quality time with will getting tuned up nicely. Smiley

Nice to see designers actually testing their products prior to selling them Wink
I'm assuming you mean actually seeing them lines in hand.  All botique kite makers spend months testing and refining a new design before selling it. Now when your talking HQ and other big makers then thats a different story but even then the individual designer does a lot of testing before submitting them the final design.  I know from talking to Jon that after a new layout is submitted, at least he, does several factory made copy tests to make sure they have it right.  After its in production its up to the factory QC people.

On the custom kites they get it the best they can for what they want it to do and any ideas for improvement tends to come from the flyer base or other builders and is usually in the realm of tuning.
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RobB
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« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2012, 04:01 PM »

I'll say this... if any designers need help & feedback on a new design, I will be happy to spend some time. I would  pay round trip shipping, or in Will's case, I'll pick him up & take him to the beach (if he's still in school on LI)

 Grin
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DWayne
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« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2012, 04:03 PM »

Just checked the date on the fade picture. Feb 27, 2012. Looks like it's been spending some quality time with will getting tuned up nicely. Smiley

Nice to see designers actually testing their products prior to selling them Wink

Can you tell of one that doesn't ?

Denny
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2012, 05:35 PM »

Just checked the date on the fade picture. Feb 27, 2012. Looks like it's been spending some quality time with will getting tuned up nicely. Smiley

Nice to see designers actually testing their products prior to selling them Wink

Can you tell of one that doesn't ?

Denny
I can't think of any that don't in initial designing but I would like to see more collaboration/cooperation between the designers and the big factories.  To many good kite designs get shredded by bad factory QC.  A lot of them just because the factory copies the design badly and the makers don't tend to work closely with the designers once the kite is in production.  I have a bit more respect for premier in that they do give Jon a chance to test and make changes to the kite before full scale production starts to make sure they copied the plans right.  Mark and Dodd are exceptions since they head their own stuff.
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Ace
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« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2012, 03:21 PM »

Just checked the date on the fade picture. Feb 27, 2012. Looks like it's been spending some quality time with will getting tuned up nicely. Smiley

Nice to see designers actually testing their products prior to selling them Wink

Can you tell of one that doesn't ?

Denny

My comment is exactly as stated. Wasn't meant to be cute or smart. It simply is good to see designers like Will actually testing their product prior to selling them. In answer to your question YES there was an admission here of late that no testing whatsoever went into the Vented variants of many Sky Sport design kites. Even the designer himself commented that he was worried as to the performance of the Vented Tekken as he had not flown it yet. ...SERIOUSLY?Huh I find this unacceptable. I don't see why we should be walking on egg shells when discussing these issues. If you can't comment about kite making on a kite forum then where else? Why tip toe around the issue, anybody who knows anything about kites knows the variables in venting kites are astronomical. So, a first try final product (as admitted by the designer) is really just a prototype and it's performance is not measurable against any other variant as there has been no other variant. Experience counts for a lot, but all the experience in the world would not produce the best performing kite first off. Who wants to shell out $500 for a first attempt kite. I wouldn't. I am sure its a good kite from a good designer...But is it the best kite? who knows??..remember NO TESTING! and an admission of potential performance issues by the designer...what a great sales pitch.

No doubt this will fall on deaf ears but I think it's worth discussing at least in the context of potentially making the kites better...
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2012, 04:25 PM »

Just checked the date on the fade picture. Feb 27, 2012. Looks like it's been spending some quality time with will getting tuned up nicely. Smiley

Nice to see designers actually testing their products prior to selling them Wink

Can you tell of one that doesn't ?

Denny

My comment is exactly as stated. Wasn't meant to be cute or smart. It simply is good to see designers like Will actually testing their product prior to selling them. In answer to your question YES there was an admission here of late that no testing whatsoever went into the Vented variants of many Sky Sport design kites. Even the designer himself commented that he was worried as to the performance of the Vented Tekken as he had not flown it yet. ...SERIOUSLY?Huh I find this unacceptable. I don't see why we should be walking on egg shells when discussing these issues. If you can't comment about kite making on a kite forum then where else? Why tip toe around the issue, anybody who knows anything about kites knows the variables in venting kites are astronomical. So, a first try final product (as admitted by the designer) is really just a prototype and it's performance is not measurable against any other variant as there has been no other variant. Experience counts for a lot, but all the experience in the world would not produce the best performing kite first off. Who wants to shell out $500 for a first attempt kite. I wouldn't. I am sure its a good kite from a good designer...But is it the best kite? who knows??..remember NO TESTING! and an admission of potential performance issues by the designer...what a great sales pitch.

No doubt this will fall on deaf ears but I think it's worth discussing at least in the context of potentially making the kites better...
Ah yea I forgot about Lams comment.  However that particular vented was just made right before LAm posted about it so its a bit different when its litterally the first one built ever so I'm sure there will be some testing  and changes to come if they are needed.  Venteds are a hard thing to balance right.  I've been tinkering with a couple vented projects myself and can personally attest to the difficulty in balancing the sail pressure in the kite.  ITs really easy to put a vent off just enough that you release pressure where  you actually want to keep it.  IN lams case since most of his kites have similar sail specs and he doesn't vent the tunnel itself (center of pressure) performance variation will be small in actual flight.  Lam is an exception though and he has a bit different way of doing some things. 

Personally if I find something in a kite I think can be changed for the better I do it to my own and if it works out well I also let the designer know what I've done incase they want to test it for themselves and add the change in production.  HOwever most of the time I find its just small tuning changes needed, Rarely do I find a change needed in the overall design of a sail unless its a prototype version I'm testing out.
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tpatter
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« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2012, 04:33 PM »

I knew Lam had not extensively flown the vent.   I've see how he designs his kites - he works on the light first and then the others.  Sort of like 'starting in the middle'.    Personally, I think he is designing all 3 as he goes.

Each model if his kites are a consistent design in my experience - same number of standoffs, same sail, he varies material weight, framing weight, bridle tweaks.  So, it's easy to update the kite if he makes a design change that he feels works better. 

Anyhow, both kites are top of their class.   For sure, much better than kites that I have flown where the designer spent over a year working it out, whatever that means.  I think to a large extent, the kite works pretty well and needs minor tweaks, or you are starting over.

Tom
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coogee
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« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2012, 12:58 AM »

Aw give the bloke a break he must have some idea by now of how to chop holes on a sail.
 Mike
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KaoS
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« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2012, 02:09 PM »

Aw give the bloke a break he must have some idea by now of how to chop holes on a sail.
 Mike


...and where!  Grin
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Kevin Sanders

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madhabitz
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« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2012, 10:49 AM »


No doubt this will fall on deaf ears but I think it's worth discussing at least in the context of potentially making the kites better...

Discussion is always good. Snarky comments.... notsomuch.

~ just sayin'
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dihongshao2000
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« Reply #26 on: December 25, 2012, 12:38 PM »

Aw give the bloke a break he must have some idea by now of how to chop holes on a sail.
 Mike


...and where!  Grin
..and their sizes Grin
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harveystubbs
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« Reply #27 on: December 25, 2012, 05:07 PM »

Aw give the bloke a break he must have some idea by now of how to chop holes on a sail.
 Mike


...and where!  Grin
..and their sizes Grin

And the shape of the holes too ..... Don't worry I have already placed a call with the pedantic police  Cool
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DD
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« Reply #28 on: December 25, 2012, 08:00 PM »

More back on point, anyone got a comparison of Will's new kite to something else?
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #29 on: December 25, 2012, 09:08 PM »

More back on point, anyone got a comparison of Will's new kite to something else?
Doubtful since its not even finished yet.
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