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Author Topic: Which kites "give away" tricks...  (Read 5664 times)
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tpatter
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« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2013, 06:25 PM »

Does the Transformer "give away" the JL also?

Hells yeah.  Transformer is like high end cookware - it works great for both recreational users as well as the pros who really like to 'turn up the heat' so to speak.

They all do in my opinion.  I've never flown a Lam kites that didn't excell at JL, yoyo, multi lazy, cascade, comete, backspin, control, stability, etc. 

I do think some kites give extra time and a wider range for inputs.  Hard to beat Fearless for this in my experience.  These are all also easy for me on the Transformer, but the Fearless taught me everything to the point that I can do it on any reasonable kite. 

Now, the TNT and Tekken are teaching me to taz. 

Sometimes I think a kite can teach you a trick even if you then move that ability on to your other kites and the abandon it for your more overall favorites.

Tom
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 06:33 PM by tpatter » Logged

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kepople
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« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2013, 07:00 PM »

Tekkens a good taz teacher too huh?
Thats great news if you know what i mean...

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Lee S
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« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2013, 10:06 PM »

The kite you haven't flown in a year will "give away" tricks you couldn't do very well last time you had it out. Huh  I have kites I haven't flown in several years that have become quite tricky in their sleep.
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coogee
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« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2013, 01:03 AM »

The Superfly
Insane
Insane Cascade
Cynique
Wrapped Cynique
Lazy
Multi Lazy
Rolling Susan
Any turtle based trick really
Great fun!


Mike
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KaoS
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« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2013, 02:59 AM »

After trying to learn taz it was suggested not to try it on a certain kite until I can do it on others.

So I am curious which kites are great for learning specific tricks? Which kites do a trick even if ones inputs are too strong or timing is slightly off? You could give a kite a rating if you prefer on a 1-5 (5 being automatic) how easily the kite will do the trick.

Example:
Taz Machine: TNT, NSE 15
Fade: Transformer, Sea Devil
540: Black Pearl UL/STD (4)
Flap Jack: Transformer SSUL
K2000:  Transformer SSUL

Okay, I see what you're after...  thinking back at which kites gave me the "aha!" moment for specific tricks.

Cascade:
 "Benson Box Of Tricks"  Will do repeatable one pop cascades, once you learn the second pop, it will do rising cascades pretty easily too.
540:
 "Benson Phantom Elite". The kite allows you to do the trick in stages.  You can leave a significant amount of time between the flare and the "pop", and the rotation is SO flat.
Backspin:
 "Benson Gemini" 5 points.  It is almost impossible to NOT get them.  Again, really flat with no hint of lateral roll.
 "Eyesight" 4.5 points. First rotation is a bit slow, but after that just keep popping the line to watch the kite rise and rise after each rotation.  Can you say "Tornado"?
Backspin cascade:
 "HQ Shadow"
Fade:
 "MEFM".  Locked in for-ever!!
  Pretty much any Prism will hold a long, steady fade, no rocking.
Comete:
 "Prism Quantum Pro" - Will do the trick in 4 separate steps and doesn't require you to be anywhere near perfect with your inputs.
Flic Flac:
 "Aziza" taught me frenetic, rapid fire flic flacs - in any direction (Facing up, facing down, backwards, forwards). "Psycho" did them too.
 "Level One Genesis" gives away slow flic flacs where you choose the timing.
Flapjack:
  Never had a problem with these, but the "Benson Deepspace" gives them away.
K2000:
 Found them pretty easy in every kite - can't think of one that does them better than any other.
Snap Lazy:
 "Benson Deepspace"
JL:
 "Widowmaker" was the first kite where I could choose when to finish the ladder. (When I got bored)
 "Sabre II" will also do them forever.
Rolling Susan/Cynique:
 "R-Sky NSE" 5 points
 "L'Atelier Transfer XTR" 4 points
Insane:
 "R-Sky Nirvana"

I should point out that these were the kites on which I found the tricks easiest to learn AT THAT TIME.  My kite bag is ever changing, and a lot of the tricks I used to find challenging are now available from many of the kites currently in the bag.

If I was to recommend a kite to learn most modern tricks on, I don't reckon you can go past a JoE Talon.  I've flown one often and am always impressed with how easy it is to "get into".  I'm also impressed with how easily less experienced flyers learn new tricks on it.

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Kevin Sanders

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tpatter
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« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2013, 09:54 AM »


Some more thoughts...

540, slot, taz, pinwheel- TNT Zero.   Basically, any flat spin trick it does extremely well. 

Fun - Transformer gets a 5  I'm always delighted to fly this kite.   I'll give the Nirvana NFX a 4, that little kite is my favorite R-Sky kite.

Side slide - Vapor

2 pop - Tekken.  Hard or soft, it just rolls over more reliably than any other kite I've tried.

Best indoor for outdoor flying - iTrix.   Flys more like a full size kite than any other indoor I've flown and does many tricks.  Stiff frame for man-handling.

Best looking (paneled) - R-Sky Krystal.  I've got a KFX which is super fun to fly, but I also love how it looks as well.

Taz - Magnet.  This is the only kite that I can do the taz cascade on.  This one does the taz more easily than the half-axel , almost automatic.   15 also does them easily, but not as easy as this one.  Also, it's half axel takes some minding.





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jaydub
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« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2013, 10:18 AM »


Some more thoughts...

Taz - Magnet.  This is the only kite that I can do the taz cascade on.  This one does the taz more easily than the half-axel , almost automatic.

Seconded.  Absolute Taz monster.  It does beautiful HAs and cascades, but the timing is critical.  Most of my other kites let you flare the kite then lift the new top wing out.  The Magnet needs you to lift out the moment it goes into the flare - no pause, one continuous set of inputs.
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red sweater
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« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2013, 11:16 AM »

It's probably true that, even with infinite money, I could not buy tricks. However...

Best looking (paneled) - R-Sky Krystal.  I've got a KFX which is super fun to fly, but I also love how it looks as well.

I'm pretty sure I could at least manage this "trick." Wink
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kepople
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« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2013, 02:06 PM »

Not forcing a direction in the thread here, only one mention of the Snap Lazy.
Some kites seem to like to be on thier back more than others as well.
Also, is it common that if a kite will do a taz well, it will also do a slot machine well?
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mdilucca
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« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2013, 02:56 PM »

I'm most interested to find out how the kite architecture (design, bridle and construction) favors one or another trick. For instance, is a high aspect ratio kite easier to TAZ HuhRoll Eyes

I just noticed that Ian Newham http://www.ian.ourshack.org/kitedesign/design.html already addressed some of this issues:

"One of the most readily observed effects of changing spine length is it's effect on pitch stability. Think of pitch stability as the kites reluctance to change from flying normally to flipping on it's back or front etc. This is noticeable in tricks such as the Flic-Flac, Fade or Turtle. Typically short spine high aspect ratio kites take much less height to rotate about the spreaders, making Flic-Flacs faster and easier to accomplish. A long spined kite, thanks to the extra stability, is less inclined to flip around so is more inclined to stay put in a Fade or Turtle. A kites performance in any of these tricks obviously depends on other factors such as bridle settings."
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 03:19 PM by mdilucca » Logged

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Mario

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« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2013, 03:19 PM »

..., is a shorter aspect kite easier to TAZ HuhRoll Eyes

By shorter, do you mean high aspect ratio (longer wingspan, shorter spine) or low aspect ratio (shorter wingspan, longer spine) ?
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Kevin Sanders

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mdilucca
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« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2013, 03:22 PM »

..., is a shorter aspect kite easier to TAZ HuhRoll Eyes

By shorter, do you mean high aspect ratio (longer wingspan, shorter spine) or low aspect ratio (shorter wingspan, longer spine) ?

Correct Kevin! I ment high aspect ratio (longer wingspan, shorter spine).
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Mario

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« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2013, 03:27 PM »

I only know of ONE kite that gave away a trick for free.

I am more of a newbe, been flying less than 2 years. But I have collected 20 kites and flown a lot more. Everytime a but a new kite I always check to see what free tricks it comes with.   Cheesy

I found once you learn the a trick you can apply to all your other kites.

For me I suck at the lazy susan. The kite that gives it away it my Infinity. It will sit in the turtle and wait, while I rehearse the input, debate on which hand to use, then it takes just about any sloppy input I give it and still gives me a lazy susan. No skill or technique required unlike my other kites. The invinity is also great at the snap lazy.

Because it give the trick away so easy I'm struggling to learn the proper technique to use on my other kites.  

 
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rudyy
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« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2013, 05:32 PM »

The topic is very interesting.  After one page of comments/replies, my give-away- tricks kite still stand the same ---> FEARLESS.  Cheesy 



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« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 05:47 PM by rudyy » Logged
kepople
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« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2013, 05:46 PM »

I only know of ONE kite that gave away a trick for free.

I am more of a newbe, been flying less than 2 years. But I have collected 20 kites and flown a lot more. Everytime a but a new kite I always check to see what free tricks it comes with.   Cheesy

I found once you learn the a trick you can apply to all your other kites.

For me I suck at the lazy susan. The kite that gives it away it my Infinity. It will sit in the turtle and wait, while I rehearse the input, debate on which hand to use, then it takes just about any sloppy input I give it and still gives me a lazy susan. No skill or technique required unlike my other kites. The invinity is also great at the snap lazy.

Because it give the trick away so easy I'm struggling to learn the proper technique to use on my other kites.  

 

Wayne
Exactly what we are after here. For me the kite that gives that trick away is the Silver fox 2.3 std. Its the same way about the input. It will come around easily wether you pull hard or soft.

Rudy
What does the fearless REALLY do well? Ie. my transformer will flip from pancake to fade no matter how hard or how fast you pull it. Sea devil mid vent not as much. Pull to hard And it stops pointed down. Could also be wind related since my sea devil is a higher wind kite. My FL flies different than these other two. This is a kite that requires the proper input where transformer does it no matter
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 05:48 PM by kepople » Logged
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