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Author Topic: Now here is a quandary for you  (Read 3578 times)
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Dano
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« on: June 04, 2009, 07:40 PM »

In another topic we drifted into discussing the true quantification of a JB series vs a standard 1.5 sail and the "channeling effect" of the JB sail.

There was a 20th anniversary edition of the Rev produced that has one wing in the original sail pattern, and the other wing using the JB series pattern.  Makes me wonder how you'd manage to keep the 2 halfs working together.  Grin



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kairusan
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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2009, 08:57 PM »

And that picture shows off quite well exactly why that "wind-channeling" thing is very probably just idle marketing fluff: note how neither of the channels is anything near vertical, and how the outermost one is split down the middle from the vertical spar.

Now as to the grey panels' other function—keeping the standard and vented kites "aesthetically similar"—that I can readily believe. (Although the "aesthetics"—or absence thereof—is in the eye of the beholder, obviously.)  Wink
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monkey
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« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2009, 11:03 AM »

Theres a tweak you can do to one side of the bridle that will even up the response a bit between the two sides.

As for marketing fluff, I spent 30 minutes on a "standard" SLE sail the other day, and then switched to a B sail. There -is- a definite difference between the two.
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david hathaway
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Allen Carter
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« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2009, 11:44 AM »

Yes, but what IS the difference?

I've never seen it clearly articulated.
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Allen, AKA kitehead
kairusan
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« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2009, 12:21 PM »

Theres a tweak you can do to one side of the bridle that will even up the response a bit between the two sides.

As for marketing fluff, I spent 30 minutes on a "standard" SLE sail the other day, and then switched to a B sail. There -is- a definite difference between the two.

Were they both factory stock, or was one of them stretched and the other wasn't?

Were the bungees on both tightened evenly, or was one looser than the other? If so, which bungees were looser/tighter?

Were the bungees on one older (and hence more stretchy) than the other? If so, which ones?

Was the bridle on one as stretched out as the bridle on the other?

And finally (the question I'm really curious about), was the difference you noticed even in the B's favor? If so, why?
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Allen Carter
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« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2009, 12:37 PM »

To be clear,  I don't doubt there are subtle handling differences between standard and B-series 1.5s, it's just not clear what they are. Any time you change sail pattern & materials the kite can feel different.

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Allen, AKA kitehead
Watty
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« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2009, 04:46 PM »

In another topic we drifted into discussing the true quantification of a JB series vs a standard 1.5 sail and the "channeling effect" of the JB sail.

There was a 20th anniversary edition of the Rev produced that has one wing in the original sail pattern, and the other wing using the JB series pattern.  Makes me wonder how you'd manage to keep the 2 halfs working together.  Grin



Acually, if you every fly on of the anniversary series, it does not fly streight.
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kiten00b
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« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2009, 06:15 PM »

The 20th Anniversary Rev is more a collector's item than a daily flier. It stretches unevenly and doesn't fly neutrally. It proves there is a difference between the B series and the simpler panel layouts, though. Fly both and you'll notice the difference if you have much quad experience. I passed on buying one one I flew a 20th Anniversary and got another B series instead.
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lasapcheong
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« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2009, 10:04 PM »

Actually there is something much more obvious than sail panelling. If you take a 1.5 and b series sale and lay them back to back, the sail profile is slightly different. That would be a bigger determinant than panelling IMHO.

-Darryl
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kairusan
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« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2009, 11:21 PM »

Detriment, or compliment? That's the REAL question, is it not?  Cry

Oh, and Watty, aren' ye a lill' young t' be drunk? That's how I type when I'm wasted................  Wink
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Watty
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« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2009, 07:22 AM »

OH!, lol that would be me typing fast after playing my first person shooters  Cheesy
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lylenc
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« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2009, 08:08 AM »

To be clear,  I don't doubt there are subtle handling differences between standard and B-series 1.5s, it's just not clear what they are. Any time you change sail pattern & materials the kite can feel different.

I haven't flown my B enough to know the differences compared to the standard. It may be that framing makes more difference than sail pattern for all I know. The B seems to be floatier, slower, and more precise than the standard.

My guess is that the anniversary half and half kite would try to turn right, if the B side flies slower. At the low end of the wind range, the standard side would probably quit flying before the B side and the kite would turn left.  Huh

One needs to fly both sails with the same framing to determine the differences due to sail design. Fly both sails with SLE framing and both sails with 2/3-wrap framing and the sail pattern differences would be more obvious.

That's all the BS I can sling without a few beers. The framing probably causes more change than the sails, for my preferences. As the wind drops and I replace the standard's SLE leading edge with the flexy 3-wrap rod, I want to puke, and it's not because of too many beers.  Lips sealed
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Craig     Walla Walla, WA     Just One More!
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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2009, 01:23 PM »

The left side of the Anniversary Series flies just a *tad* faster, whereas the right side cups a little more... I've spent extensive time on these both individually and on a team, now I just move my bottom left line attachment point (knot on the bridle) about 1/4"-1/2" towards the kite to increase brake on that side, works fine for me.
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John Barresi
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monkey
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« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2009, 08:41 AM »

Were they both factory stock, or was one of them stretched and the other wasn't?

Both were flown about the same. Light wear on either.

Quote
Were the bungees on both tightened evenly, or was one looser than the other? If so, which bungees were looser/tighter?

Again, roughly the same. 

Quote
Were the bungees on one older (and hence more stretchy) than the other? If so, which ones?

Well, one of the kites is certainly older, but, for all intents and purposes, they are roughly the same ;-)

Quote
Was the bridle on one as stretched out as the bridle on the other?

Bridles don't tend to stretch much, so, roughly the same Cheesy Is this 20 questions?

Quote
And finally (the question I'm really curious about), was the difference you noticed even in the B's favor? If so, why?

On older sail patterns they tend to oversteer a tiny amount in comparision, the B's tend to fly a touch straighter coming out of corners and such, they also tend to back up in a straighter. Is it a huge difference? No, not really, but, it's there.  As someone pointed out, all of the differing sail patterns tend to fly slightly different. if I spend an hour on an SLE pattern, any oversteer issues go away as I simply mentally adjust the inputs.
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david hathaway
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