Backspin "Trick Challenge"

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[fidelio]

The only difference, and its slight, is the center of rotation on the backspin is farther away from the nose, accomplished by adding more slack after the rotational input, otherwise they're identical in execution.

[Ara Ararauna]

How about more help with the learning of tricks and the enjoyment of flying than splitting hairs as if we were judges at some competition ?   

 +1

Surely the point of Norm's challenges is to encourage new fliers to try new tricks not put them off?

Remember, kite flying is supposed to be fun.

+1

[Hadge]

  My question... flying down I pancake, then Pull back. Is it a sweeping pull or a quick tug?  I am at the 10% mark on them   I think I also forget to give slack right after the pull. 

It varies from kite to kite, but from what you say it sounds like you need to give it more slack or take a step towards the kite.  Have you tried to enter the fade from an Axel? - the 'Fractured Axel' - put the kite into an Axel but halfway through with the kite nose away give both lines a pull and it should come through into the fade position. As the left wing rises ( in the fade) pull with the right hand - like starting a lawnmower back and slightly out, while giving slack with the left hand and it should start to spin.

[RobB]

  My question... flying down I pancake, then Pull back. Is it a sweeping pull or a quick tug?  I am at the 10% mark on them   I think I also forget to give slack right after the pull. 

Tomorrows another day!

I could best describe the pull back as a wrist pop with immediate slack. It's tough to put these things in words... Some kites need more, some less.

[trigger]

Thanks guys. Will try tomorrow.  both the "starting lawn mower and wrist pop" are good terms.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

[lylenc]

My one and only attempt at a crude and over-simplified explanation of the difference - Barrel roll vertical plane wingtip rotation VS Backspin horizontal plane wingtip rotation.

Barrel roll: Spine stays mostly horizontal with nose pointing mostly at flyer all the time; wingtips rotate in a vertical plane around the spine.

Backspin: Spine stays mostly horizontal with it and nose revolving (nose alternates between pointing at and away from the flyer) around a vertical line somewhere along the spine close to or at the nose; wingtips also rotate in a horizontal plane around this vertical line, which may be at a different level than the horizontal plane the nose is rotating in.

That's how I see it - similar set-up and inputs, but perpendicular difference in wingtip rotations. If enough of us say the same thing in different ways, the light bulb will eventually come on for you. If this makes things more confusing for you, please ignore it.

[Ara Ararauna]

I'm on my way guys & gals!

Please look here!
http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=9667.msg86340#new

I'm so motivated and happy 

[Ara Ararauna]

Answer to Norm moved to the other thread...

[NormP]

Great challange and video Norm 
I earned my first pair of Norm's straps with a backspin challange.
Norm was very wise to give me a challange that fit my long hard inputs. 
This is a solid skill to have and a very reachable goal.
Hope a lot of the entry level flyers jump in and try it. Looking forward to some videos in the next couple of weeks of success and not so successful attempts. Good luck to you all.

Wayne you are welcome to join in and participate for the prize.
3 rotations of reversing Backspins to Fades.
You can start out in either direction you choose. 

[NormP]

Norm,
 I want to participate  but I am not going to enter this challenge for straps.
I am very good at the back spin but never tried to fade between spins, sounds fun and I'll keep you posted.
 Thanks for keeping the challenges going!!   

Charles, you are welcome to join in and compete for the prize.
3 rotations of reversing Backspins to Fade.
You can start off in either direction you choose.

[NormP]

How about more help with the learning of tricks and the enjoyment of flying than splitting hairs as if we were judges at some competition ?   

+1
Surely the point of Norm's challenges is to encourage new fliers to try new tricks not put them off?
Remember, kite flying is supposed to be fun.

Steve, you are welcome to join in and compete for the prize.
3 rotation of reversing Backspins to Fade.
You can start off in either direction you choose.

[RobB]

In thinking more about Backspins vs. Barrel-Rolls... I was watching my Fearless video from December. I think Tom brought it up, too, that the Fearless can do both, and it's a (relatively) modern trick kite. So, what I found is that when I was sloppy with my flying, and forgot to give enough slack, the kite barrel-rolled. When I hit it right, I think that even though the stealth kite is hard to see, you will see a distinct difference in what looks like a backspin.
The video's long, but it's full of fades & backspins (barrel-rolls). This is when I was working on trying to change the direction of spin...
1:45... Backspin ?   

Flying the Fearless Tattoo SUL.... December 2012

[NormP]

1:45... Backspin ?   

I'm glad I'm not actually having to judge this, but at 1:45 I seen Backspin immediately followed off to the left with barrel rolls. Maybe after all of this backspin/barrel roll stuff our eyes will even get better. 

Rob you are welcome to join in the challenge and compete for the prize. Your requirement will be 6 rotating Barrel Rolls to Fade. You can start off in any direction you choose.   You should have never allowed me to watch this again.    Doesn't look like it will be much of a problem for you using the stealth kite.

[RobB]

Hey Norm... I really didn't want to suggest that the reversing rotation be a requirement, just really was wondering if it was acceptable. The way you do it in your original video is hard enough, to catch the spin, pause it, and then spin again.
That's one thing that's not getting too much attention here is the catch. It's way harder than the backspin barrel-roll. (BSBR ?  ) It took me months to learn how to backspin, but years to learn how to catch the backspin into a fade. If you watch the Mama74 video at the end where he does the Backspin Cascade, you'll see clues on how to get the catch. He hits it immediately for the counter rotation, but you can see the moment just before that where he controls & stops the rotation. It helps to slow-mo the video.

As I am still working on getting the AVFFF on film, I'm not going to start with this one, YET. I hope this challenge has been done by that time and we're onto the next one, because 6 will be tough. I mean, I'm going to drive myself nuts trying to do it anyway, only if to have something to drive for.

[NormP]

Hey Norm... I really didn't want to suggest that the reversing rotation be a requirement, just really was wondering if it was acceptable.

It's a great twist that makes it a real "challenge" for certain fliers and allows for more participants to enter. I thought it was a great idea, so decided to go with it. Now Wayner, Charles, Steve, and yourself (6) can enter the "challenge" if they would like. 

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