GWTW Forum
December 21, 2014, 11:10 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Forum Info Login Register Chat  
Welcome to the GWTW Forum.
Guests (non-registered users) can view the forum but are unable to post.  If you don't have anything to say then why would you bother to register?
One of the most popular sections of the GWTW Forum has long been the Swap Meet.  A great place to sell old, seldom flown kites or to get great deals on used (gently flown) kites.  Only registered users can see the Swap Meet section, let alone wheel and deal.  1000's (literally) of kites have changed hands thanks to the Swap Meet.
There are several more benefits to being a registered user, but you'll have to join our little community to find out all the "secrets".
Questions or concerns? Contact Steve ... just drop an email to: forum.gwtwkites@gmail.com

Pages: [1] 2 ... 4   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Demo Music From This Century Please (Now Hijacked)  (Read 4640 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
chilese
Global Moderator
Trade Count: (+5)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3163


Location: Las Vegas, NV

WWW
« on: March 13, 2013, 01:48 PM »

At Kite Party, Mr. Shenkman has the unenviable task of attempting

to please everyone all the time. Over the years, the event is semi-unplanned

except for 2 demo periods of about 30 minutes per day. Most of the kiters

have seen the demos many times. And even if the routine is changed, the

overall feel is similar.

For whom are the demos performed (zippy8  sentence structure)?

The crowd at the beach is 99.9% non kite savvy. The Sundowners flying

stacks with tails would get more notice than any of the Rev routines.

And sadly, I could fly a sport kite with a huge tube tail and hold more interest

than any of the much better fliers performing solo.

Ray Bethell would be a great go-to guy, but then he has been performing since

mud was invented.

The average "age" of the music performed during demos was about 40 years with

Whitney Houston (1993) being the newest song. Even Mr. Barresi's excellent

"Barber of Seville" routine is a soundtrack 60 years old.

If we are to hold the interest of the facebook/twitter/instagram kids and young

parents, we could at least grab some music less than a decade old. I'm not saying

it's music the pilot likes, just something that the passer-by can hum along to a song

by Maroon 5, Pink, Pitbull, Justin Timberlake or the Killers.

If we want new fliers, we can at least start with newer music.

Okay, back to my Mumford and Sons CD. Carry on.  Smiley

« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 08:13 PM by chilese » Logged

John Chilese: Las Vegas, NV
http://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej
tpatter
Trade Count: (+24)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2010

Location: Seattle, WA

WWW
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2013, 02:22 PM »

I've been to many festivals and I agree that you have an excellent point.  It's true that most of the great demo flyers seem to re-use the same music again and again.  I can see why as its very difficult to find a piece that works extremely well and they have also been working on perfecting flying to it and have much time invested.

I've seen certain music work really well during hot tricks where, at least in the PNW, random current  music is played during the flying.  You have no idea what is coming up, but its always catchy, recognizable, and engaging. 

I guess that one difference is that a ballet is usually thoroughly planned and practiced to a certain track, where this other sort of exhibition flying is really about entertaining the crowd, but not necessarily impressing them in an artistic way.

-Tom
Logged

6 kite tom
Allen Carter
Board Moderator
Trade Count: (+20)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1857

Location: Half Moon Bay, CA

« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2013, 02:57 PM »

To entertain a crowd the music must be recognizable and enjoyable by a large percentage of spectators. Of course, it must also be practical as kite music.

"Classics" generally fill the bill as a huge majority of spectators of almost any age recognize something like Bohemian Rhapsody, Bugs Bunny or even (god forbid) Whitney Houston.  One of the main ways to wow a crowd is to hit major features of a routine at obvious points in the music. If these opportunities in the music aren't obvious to the spectator, the cool thing that just happened in the air in perfect synch to the music is sort of lost. There is less "That was COOL!" in the crowd.

There's a video on YouTube from last Saturday taken from the audience during iQuad's 'Rhapsody. It's clear that the crowd is anticipating the action in the sky, and it's obvious they are enjoying the show.

I'd say a spectator would be more likely to enjoy a killer routine set to BoRhap and possibly look forward to the same or similar next year than just about any recent music I can think of. It's not that recent music is bad, of course not, it just doesn't fit the parameters of kite demos.

I'm more concerned with the quality of music over the PA throughout the day. Last year was really bad, and in one nicely produced civilian video there is actually a disclaimer that the music was NOT the choice of the shooter, but was part of KP.

There's always a balance of this thing being for kiters vs. for spectators. I think we need music throughout the day that has overall appeal, for the diverse KP population and the guy walking on the pier who has to listen to it too.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 03:03 PM by Allen Carter » Logged

Allen, AKA kitehead
DavidformerlyDavid
Trade Count: (0)
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 24


Location: SF Bay Area

« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2013, 03:23 PM »

  I have to agree with Allen, and not just because he still has my big kite bag.  Wink

  I think a well-performed routine is the main attribute of this event.  And to the common observer, it's not unlike Olympic figure skating.  Heck, we only see that every 2 years, and everyone's an armchair expert by the end of the competition. Consider that most of the pieces used for those routines are over a HUNDRED years old!  I imagine that there are folks who look forward to the routines once/year just like many of us enjoy the figure skating every other year (used to be four years).

  If anything, I think John's challenge is for performers to work out new routines to more modern music.  This in itself is a challenge, and probably due to the nature of media.  Certainly "Bohemian Rhapsody" became a cultural meme for millions, and that lasted for a long, long time.  Nowadays, however, the cycle is much shorter, and "Call Me Maybe" becomes "Gangnam Style" becomes "Harlem Shuffle".  Heck, by the time you could work out a routine, the tune is already ancient history.  (Still, I'd love to see Chilese do a routine to "Gangnam Style"... Roll Eyes)  So the challenge I would propose is a routine to some newer musical vein.

  And as a devout Bugs Bunny fan, I must assert that since the Foley sounds are in the mix, JB's routine is more precisely described as flown to "The Rabbit of Seville".   Grin
Logged
RobB
Trade Count: (+9)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1422


Location: Long Island

WWW
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2013, 03:52 PM »

Quote
just something that the passer-by can hum along to a song

by Maroon 5, Pink, Pitbull, Justin Timberlake or the Killers.

Here's the sad thing... I have no idea who any of those artists are, or what they perform. I haven't heard anything I've liked on the radio since the 80s...  Shocked
Logged

Allen Carter
Board Moderator
Trade Count: (+20)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1857

Location: Half Moon Bay, CA

« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2013, 04:01 PM »

Hey John, remember why you chose Pink Panther for your ballet music? Remember that killer 540 on the horn blast?

You just can't fly an expressive ballet to most pop music. There's not enough there. I could take my top 100 favorite songs from all eras and I doubt any would be really appropriate for kite ballet.
Logged

Allen, AKA kitehead
Ca Ike
Trade Count: (+24)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1712


Location: Stockton, CA

« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2013, 05:09 PM »

If you just limit the genre then yea you will find on average 60% of the songs will not lend themselves to a good "Rev" ballet routine.  I have to disagree that you can't fly a good dual or even a solo rev routine to modern music.  Here's an example i did last summer in this thread http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=6209.0  Granted I'm a better flier now and that one was completely "off the cuff" flown but it can still be done.

I'll agree with Allen though that last years KP music was bad and I heard lots of comments from beach goers about the demo music being better than the rest that was played.  YOu can't please everyone with every song but a mix of all genre's and era's is going to have a better chance than locking into the obscure alternative stuff played last year.  Can't speak for this year though since I wasn't there.  Personally some "Jump" blues, maybe some Funk like Tower of Power added to the mix would be nice.  There's even some rap/hip hop that is good too,  but none of the sappy modern R&B crap being called music.  I hear a song being sung through a voice modulator using a lot of reverb and I start wishing I was deaf.
Logged
Revgod
Trade Count: (+1)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 173


Location: Huntington Beach, CA

« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2013, 07:31 PM »

I would like to ask one simple question. If the music last year was so bad (by the way, I didn't choose it), why the Hell didn't anyone say anything to me?! Did I miss something? Did someone comment on how bad it was last year and I missed it? While you may find it hard to believe, I am so engaged in what is going on on the fields, I don't really notice what's being played. How was it this year? Ya know guys, I kind of need to know what you think. I will tell you that THIS year, it was my ipod, I simply went through and picked a bunch of stuff that I like, moved it to a folder, and hit "shuffle play". Anyway, in the end, this is likely a moot point.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 07:38 PM by Revgod » Logged

Steve's CTR
chilese
Global Moderator
Trade Count: (+5)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3163


Location: Las Vegas, NV

WWW
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2013, 08:20 PM »

Frankly, I thought the music last year during the day was the most diverse, evenly spread set

of tunes we've had. The DJ even downloaded a Brandon Flowers (Killers lead vocalist) song for me.

He played everything from classic rock (Aldo Nova "Life is Just a Fantasy") to songs within the

previous 12 months.

This thread was about demo music.

The fliers in iQuad and Too Much Fun are superb. They could do called out formations to any

4/4 rock music and the crowd would not care. No one is going to say, "Oh, if only there had

been a crescendo for the burst formation."

I competed for 3 years and used movie soundtracks almost exclusively. But once, I flew to

"The Walls Came Down" and a few guys told me it was a welcome change. I didn't do well in

that particular event.

Dave can't please everyone all the time. But he does come very close.

I'm wondering myself what was so bad about the general music. It was the best mix in 11 years.

Not that everyone likes the newer music. But there are more views for Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga

than Night Ranger and Aerosmith will ever get.

We need the next generation of fliers drawn in. You don't get them with "Takin care of Business".
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 09:18 PM by chilese » Logged

John Chilese: Las Vegas, NV
http://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej
Ca Ike
Trade Count: (+24)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1712


Location: Stockton, CA

« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2013, 11:48 PM »

I would like to ask one simple question. If the music last year was so bad (by the way, I didn't choose it), why the Hell didn't anyone say anything to me?! Did I miss something? Did someone comment on how bad it was last year and I missed it? While you may find it hard to believe, I am so engaged in what is going on on the fields, I don't really notice what's being played. How was it this year? Ya know guys, I kind of need to know what you think. I will tell you that THIS year, it was my ipod, I simply went through and picked a bunch of stuff that I like, moved it to a folder, and hit "shuffle play". Anyway, in the end, this is likely a moot point.
Sorry Dave, but I heard more than a few times "What kind if crazy crap are they listening to?" in a variety of colorful ways from spectators.  For me I couldn't find a groove in most of what was played last year to fly to but thats just my personal preference, I like to fly to what I'm listening to even if its just figures. I found myself mentally tuning out the music a lot while flying but it was the friends and fellow fliers (and the flying) that brought me there and will have me coming back again, not the music.  It was still a great weekend and I wish I could have made it this year too but it just wasn't in the cards.

Anyway back on topic.  There are a lot of songs in all genre's that can be flown to and all you have to do is watch different vids to see that.  IT all depends on the kite and flying style with that kite.  Rev's don't lend themselves easily to the more aggressive types of music unless you get away from the B series and go with the faster rev 2 or speed series revs.  The supersonic routine Alex did at KP9 is a good example.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 11:55 PM by Ca Ike » Logged
Mayfirst
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 45

Location: Helsinki, Finland

« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2013, 12:46 AM »

I don't think the music needs to be anything Top 20 related though. Honestly, as a 26 year old, I've loved kite videos with music genres all the way from Hans Zimmer to trance. And I know I'm not alone in this. Movie music always sparks an interest in an observer and they'll come ask you where they've heard it before, even if they don't care about the kite. Grin But if you play the same song over and over, no wonder people walk away...

So I don't think the ballet music matters, but in events it's important to play something upbeat between the slower and calmer songs. It's kinda the same as in any disco/techno party or even a rock concert or an opera, you want to wake people up first, then ask them to pay attention, and then give them something upbeat again. Even adults' attention span can be ridiculously short. And I wouldn't want people to leave the event feeling sleepy.

By the way, who decided it should be called a ballet? That alone pushes younger generations away.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 01:06 AM by Mayfirst » Logged
Ca Ike
Trade Count: (+24)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1712


Location: Stockton, CA

« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2013, 01:06 AM »

I don't think the music needs to be anything Top 20 related though. Honestly, as a 26 year old, I've loved kite videos with music genres all the way from Hans Zimmer to trance. And I know I'm not alone in this. Movie music always sparks an interest in an observer when they come ask you where they've heard it before, even if they don't care about the kite. Grin But if you play the same song over and over, no wonder people walk away...

So I don't think the ballet music matters, but in events it's important to play something upbeat between the slower and calmer songs. It's kinda the same as in any disco/techno party, you want to wake people up first, then ask them to watch, and then give them something upbeat again. Even adults' attention span can be ridiculously short. And I wouldn't want people to leave the event feeling sleepy.

By the way, who decided it should be called a ballet? That alone pushes younger generations away.
bal·let  [ba-ley, bal-ey]  Show IPA
noun
1.
a classical dance form demanding grace and precision and employing formalized steps and gestures set in intricate, flowing patterns to create expression through movement.


I believe thats why its called ballet.  Essentially thats what we do only with kites and in competitions there are required or compulsory figures that are chosen for the entrants to do just like the standard moves in ballet.  Unless its open freestyle flying, competitions are a lot like ballet.
Logged
Mayfirst
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 45

Location: Helsinki, Finland

« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2013, 01:21 AM »

I don't think the music needs to be anything Top 20 related though. Honestly, as a 26 year old, I've loved kite videos with music genres all the way from Hans Zimmer to trance. And I know I'm not alone in this. Movie music always sparks an interest in an observer when they come ask you where they've heard it before, even if they don't care about the kite. Grin But if you play the same song over and over, no wonder people walk away...

So I don't think the ballet music matters, but in events it's important to play something upbeat between the slower and calmer songs. It's kinda the same as in any disco/techno party, you want to wake people up first, then ask them to watch, and then give them something upbeat again. Even adults' attention span can be ridiculously short. And I wouldn't want people to leave the event feeling sleepy.

By the way, who decided it should be called a ballet? That alone pushes younger generations away.
bal·let  [ba-ley, bal-ey]  Show IPA
noun
1.
a classical dance form demanding grace and precision and employing formalized steps and gestures set in intricate, flowing patterns to create expression through movement.


I believe thats why its called ballet.  Essentially thats what we do only with kites and in competitions there are required or compulsory figures that are chosen for the entrants to do just like the standard moves in ballet.  Unless its open freestyle flying, competitions are a lot like ballet.

I get that, and I agree, but go ahead and ask a teenager or a young adult who has never seen one come and watch a kite "ballet", the reaction will probably be the same as if you asked them to go to an opera or a real ballet. If they say okay, it's usually just to please you.
Logged
RobB
Trade Count: (+9)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1422


Location: Long Island

WWW
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2013, 04:27 AM »

I don't think the music needs to be anything Top 20 related though. Honestly, as a 26 year old, I've loved kite videos with music genres all the way from Hans Zimmer to trance. And I know I'm not alone in this. Movie music always sparks an interest in an observer and they'll come ask you where they've heard it before, even if they don't care about the kite. Grin But if you play the same song over and over, no wonder people walk away...

So I don't think the ballet music matters, but in events it's important to play something upbeat between the slower and calmer songs. It's kinda the same as in any disco/techno party or even a rock concert or an opera, you want to wake people up first, then ask them to pay attention, and then give them something upbeat again. Even adults' attention span can be ridiculously short. And I wouldn't want people to leave the event feeling sleepy.

By the way, who decided it should be called a ballet? That alone pushes younger generations away.



She does make a good point... Kite ballet does sound like a bit of an eye-roller.   Roll Eyes
Logged

Jared
Trade Count: (+9)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 359

Location: North Carolina

« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2013, 06:46 AM »

As much as I can't stand modern popular music, I do make it a point to try and include one new song each year for my demos.  My competition ballet routines are usually based on older music (mostly soundtracks, some funk), but when I'm flying demos, I go with something the crowd will recognize.  Last year, it was LMFAO's "Sexy & I Know It," which really lit up the crowd at the Blossom Kite Festival.   Two years ago, it was "Blow" by Kesha.

This year, I've been flying demos to "I Will Wait" by Mumford and Sons.  Anecdotally, I think it's working, because I'm not losing spectators when I demo.  Having a 9 year old daughter helps, because she gives me an idea what's currently popular.  The biggest challenge is trying to find a new piece of music that isn't too repetitive and can support a choreographed routine.

We're very lucky on the East Coast to have festival sound guys like Terry Murray and Dennis Smith, who keep an ear on current popular music and don't just play the same ol' stuff year after year Smiley
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 ... 4   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


kmacFab
kmacFab

Kite Classifieds Ad
Kite Classifieds

A Wind Of Change
A Wind Of Change

Untitled Document
Untitled Document

Kite Classifieds Ad
Fly Market

A Wind Of Change
skyshark

Kitebookie
Kitebookie.com

Untitled Document

Untitled Document
Untitled Document

Our forum is made possible by the good folks whose ads appear above and by the members of our community (PayPal donation button at bottom)
In case you missed it each ad is linked to the sponsors web site.  So please, take a moment and visit our sponsors sites as this forum wouldn't be possible with out them.
Interested in running an ad for your business or kiting event?  Contact Steve at advertise.gwtwkites@gmail.com for a quote.

Cal Custom

Support the GWTW Forum

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.8 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.2.1 © 2008-2009
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!