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Author Topic: Demo Music From This Century Please (Now Hijacked)  (Read 4218 times)
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Allen Carter
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« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2013, 09:30 AM »

I would like to ask one simple question. If the music last year was so bad (by the way, I didn't choose it), why the Hell didn't anyone say anything to me?!

Sorry for the hijack...

For years you've said "If you don't like the music, bring some". Last year I made a pretty extensive playlist and burned it to a stack of CDs. Everything from Nirvana to Cab Calloway, with the notion that if someone doesn't like a song they'll probably like the next one. I gave the disks to the sound guy with a printed list and told him he could pick and choose songs or play straight from the CD. He proceeded to ignore my music and play bad and/or obscure guitar rock. He's a nice guy and does a good job with his sound system, but he's a BMX guy, not a kite guy. Not a good fit. I think he scanned my list and saw some things he didn't like or seemed incongruous, like a fat Hawaiian singing Somewhere Over The Rainbow or No Doubt's Just A Girl or Martha and the Vandelas, or Bare Naked Ladies.

Putting the list together I took into account the Kite Party attendees (who I do know), and the public, (who I don't) and came down on the side of the public in terms of entertainment and kite people in terms of fun to fly with and surprise factor. A lot of it is not music I would listen to on a regular basis but fits in the context of the event.



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« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2013, 11:16 AM »

Even if we went with Nirvana, you're still looking at songs more than

20 years old. And while I like Cab Calloway (Love Minnie the Moocher)...

let's just say Cab's songs are also more than 20 years old.

Kiting is mostly people over 40 with some disposable income. Without

new blood, everything slowly dies.

The DJ last year may have ignored your list, but he did play from a huge

group of songs. He played the classic rock (Boston, Foreigner, etc) and

he played some more current tracks (Amy Winehouse, Brandon Flowers).

He even played some critically acclaimed groups (Icehouse, Saga).

While his list was not yours Allen, it did contain something for everyone.

This year's DJ stayed more with normal classics (Led Zep, ZZ Top, etc).

So if you were born in the 40s, 50s, or 60s, it was "the good stuff".

There are some more recent groups worth giving a listen

(Arcade Fire, Mumford & Sons, Killers, even Norah Jones soft jazz).

No one is going to like all the music. But aim at the crowd mainstream

and a few youngsters who might find a routine to Muse's Hysteria (my

favorite recent rock song) enchanting.  Smiley
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Allen Carter
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« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2013, 11:30 AM »

John, my list has Mumford and Son and Amy Winehouse and a bunch of other "recent" stuff, but if you think those two are new music, well I don't know what to say. Popular, sure, and I love 'em, but it's not new music. Even Muse is a retread of groups like Queen. Muse is great, especially live, but they are pretty derivative. One of the things that makes these artists popular is the crossover appeal for old farts like us.

I've joked many times about having my annual Boston and Journey flashback every year at Kite Party. it would be wonderful if that particular cycle was broken.

I thought about the teen appeal a lot last year and concluded that the kind of teens you're thinking of are not going to be interested in what we are doing no matter what music we play. Even if we wanted to target teens, that's what festivals are for. Not Kite Party. Entertaining and educating the crowd should never take priority at this event. It's really a happy coincidence. One that Dave makes money on.  Cool
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Allen, AKA kitehead
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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2013, 11:30 AM »

Kiting is mostly people over 40 with some disposable income. Without

new blood, everything slowly dies.

(I should probably preface my comment: I'm younger (for now) than what you named. And I find sport kiting fun. I think a lot of even younger folks could as well, and getting them interested would benefit the community. So what I say next isn't disagreeing with the general sentiment. But...)

That doesn't at all mean the "new blood" needs to be teenagers and college kids. In fact, it strongly suggests that we should not target them, if they don't have disposable money. Target "over the hill" party recipients, instead.  Wink

"New blood" doesn't mean progressively lowering the age of the demographic. It just means keeping pace with the advance of time. Yes, if the core demographic ages, you're in trouble. But every year there's a new batch of folks aging into the current demographic. Birth rates play a role, too, shifted by a few decades, but even with fewer folks entering the demo, you don't need to shift the demo by a generation.

The community will not "die," slowly or otherwise, if it remains primarily a thing for folks several years out of college.
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« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2013, 12:34 PM »

No one is going to like all the music. But aim at the crowd mainstream

and a few youngsters who might find a routine to Muse's Hysteria (my

favorite recent rock song) enchanting.  Smiley

"Recent"? That song's age is turning to double digits now that it's already year 2013. Wink


John, my list has Mumford and Son and Amy Winehouse and a bunch of other "recent" stuff, but if you think those two are new music, well I don't know what to say. Popular, sure, and I love 'em, but it's not new music. Even Muse is a retread of groups like Queen. Muse is great, especially live, but they are pretty derivative. One of the things that makes these artists popular is the crossover appeal for old farts like us.

I've joked many times about having my annual Boston and Journey flashback every year at Kite Party. it would be wonderful if that particular cycle was broken.

I thought about the teen appeal a lot last year and concluded that the kind of teens you're thinking of are not going to be interested in what we are doing no matter what music we play. Even if we wanted to target teens, that's what festivals are for. Not Kite Party. Entertaining and educating the crowd should never take priority at this event. It's really a happy coincidence. One that Dave makes money on.  Cool

But if you DID want to target the youth, why a kite party has to be just a kite party? You could always try to combine the event with another. That's where I would start.

Example, I love to go to raves, even though I don't generally drink or do drugs or stuff like that, I go just for the dancing and the music, like majority does, as opposed to what older people with the attitude of "it's just horrible loud series of noises, it's not music" assume. Thing at the raves is, there's always all kind of light and dance shows, circus thingies like juggling, poi (no, not boy or boys, just poi), devil sticks, fire shows, and all kind of UV color, glow-in-the-dark and led stuff. Now imagine an outdoor party with a reserved spot for led and UV painted kites dancing on the sky to the music next to the crowd. That's something youth would respond to (if done properly), I guarantee.
And it wouldn't even have to be a rave, just a concert in a park and a good looking kite. But I took raves as an example because there youth actually dance and not just throw their fists in the air while jumping up and down.

Why festivals and raves are so popular? Is it the music? No! The guy who bought the ticket bought it either because his friends are going or there's one or two bands he likes. Most of the time he won't care for the music as much as for the experience itself. So the key to their success is that the organizers have turned a concert into an experience, and that's what makes people come back again and again.


Not to offend anybody but I got to say, if youngsters see only men over 40 or small children flying kites, it's automatically disregarded as "not cool" and therefor no matter what the music or the scene, it's a lost cause with the youth.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 01:01 PM by Mayfirst » Logged
Jim Foster
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« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2013, 01:17 PM »

Hey folks, not just you John, we love you, at Kite Party both on Saturday and on Sunday before any demos were flown, Dave asked over the PA system if anyone wanted to fly a demo, please bring him your music.  I don't recall any of you doing that. 

If you want to see demos to newer music, perhaps it is your turn to step up to the plate.

Choose music you think would be good for a Rev team demo.   Compose a routine to that music.  Make diagram layouts of the kite movements in that routine with notations where the kites are to move to specific parts of the music.  Contact Rev fliers (there are many of us).  Get six interested.  Send them those diagrams (.pdf) along with the music (.mp3).  Then figure out where and when they can all get together to practice.

The point being, most who watch team demos, unless they have been involved in them, have no idea just what is involved in getting six fliers (who live in different places, have different schedules and varied other interest), together at one location for even one day of practice.

Seriously, give it a try.  There is plenty of room for more teams.
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« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2013, 02:11 PM »

Jim,

I see many groups of Rev fliers flying to the call-outs of one person (you included).

If your spontaneous groups can do formations to no music, then flying to any

song should be straight forward. Granted you won't be maximizing the movements

to the music, but the crowd isn't going to notice the difference. Dave is often telling

the crowds how the fliers have only flown to some song once or never before, so

is he lying or are you telling me you don't lead groups to no music or whatever is

on the PA at the moment?

Mr. Bethell is deaf and no one seems to care that he is flying a general routine to

any song after getting a tap on the shoulder to tell him the music has started.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 02:13 PM by chilese » Logged

John Chilese: Las Vegas, NV
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« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2013, 03:18 PM »

No one is going to like all the music. But aim at the crowd mainstream

and a few youngsters who might find a routine to Muse's Hysteria (my

favorite recent rock song) enchanting.  Smiley

"Recent"? That song's age is turning to double digits now that it's already year 2013. Wink


John, my list has Mumford and Son and Amy Winehouse and a bunch of other "recent" stuff, but if you think those two are new music, well I don't know what to say. Popular, sure, and I love 'em, but it's not new music. Even Muse is a retread of groups like Queen. Muse is great, especially live, but they are pretty derivative. One of the things that makes these artists popular is the crossover appeal for old farts like us.

I've joked many times about having my annual Boston and Journey flashback every year at Kite Party. it would be wonderful if that particular cycle was broken.

I thought about the teen appeal a lot last year and concluded that the kind of teens you're thinking of are not going to be interested in what we are doing no matter what music we play. Even if we wanted to target teens, that's what festivals are for. Not Kite Party. Entertaining and educating the crowd should never take priority at this event. It's really a happy coincidence. One that Dave makes money on.  Cool

But if you DID want to target the youth, why a kite party has to be just a kite party? You could always try to combine the event with another. That's where I would start.

Example, I love to go to raves, even though I don't generally drink or do drugs or stuff like that, I go just for the dancing and the music, like majority does, as opposed to what older people with the attitude of "it's just horrible loud series of noises, it's not music" assume. Thing at the raves is, there's always all kind of light and dance shows, circus thingies like juggling, poi (no, not boy or boys, just poi), devil sticks, fire shows, and all kind of UV color, glow-in-the-dark and led stuff. Now imagine an outdoor party with a reserved spot for led and UV painted kites dancing on the sky to the music next to the crowd. That's something youth would respond to (if done properly), I guarantee.
And it wouldn't even have to be a rave, just a concert in a park and a good looking kite. But I took raves as an example because there youth actually dance and not just throw their fists in the air while jumping up and down.

Why festivals and raves are so popular? Is it the music? No! The guy who bought the ticket bought it either because his friends are going or there's one or two bands he likes. Most of the time he won't care for the music as much as for the experience itself. So the key to their success is that the organizers have turned a concert into an experience, and that's what makes people come back again and again.


Not to offend anybody but I got to say, if youngsters see only men over 40 or small children flying kites, it's automatically disregarded as "not cool" and therefor no matter what the music or the scene, it's a lost cause with the youth.
   To do what you say would be good will make the event so expensive it won't happen.  Next time you go to a rave, forget the music and your personal pleasures and really look around at whats going on.  I can almost guarantee you won't go to another one.  However, Raves in europe are different than here, the mentality is a bit different as is the music.  You mention anything that comes  close to a rave type atmosphere here and it will get shut down before it happens.  YOu mention live bands and HB will see big $$$$$ in permits and other fees.  THe format as it stands is quite popular among fliers as well as spectators and Dave does a great job with it(with our help of course Tongue ).

The big limiting factor is the cities demands.  Us fliers love to get a new person out and hand them the lines but during the event days we can't do that due to insurance issues, allowed room for the event and other stuff.  Last year I had to turn down a lot of people that wanted to try out a kite and join in the party just because of these limits set and settle for talking to them and sending them to Dave's shop on a non event day.  Sadly most of those people probably never bothered.  THe mass ascention is the only way Dave can get the crowd actually flying but Dave can explain it better. THere are a lot of legalities involved I don't fully understand myself.

Now putting out the word to the schools, local bands and performers inviting them to come out and play might be a great idea to add to the party but only Dave can find out the legalities on that and the cost.  I doubt anyone but the schools would play for free.  I know HB has requested him to put on a more formal festival but the big festivals are a ton of work that goes on for months before hand and can be expensive.  Planning for our small ballon/kite fest here in RIpon in september usually starts in january and will take until august sometimes before everything is set for the 2 day event.



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« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2013, 03:49 PM »

To do what you say would be good will make the event so expensive it won't happen.  Next time you go to a rave, forget the music and your personal pleasures and really look around at whats going on.  I can almost guarantee you won't go to another one.  However, Raves in europe are different than here, the mentality is a bit different as is the music.  You mention anything that comes  close to a rave type atmosphere here and it will get shut down before it happens.  YOu mention live bands and HB will see big $$$$$ in permits and other fees.  THe format as it stands is quite popular among fliers as well as spectators and Dave does a great job with it(with our help of course Tongue ).

The big limiting factor is the cities demands.  Us fliers love to get a new person out and hand them the lines but during the event days we can't do that due to insurance issues, allowed room for the event and other stuff.  Last year I had to turn down a lot of people that wanted to try out a kite and join in the party just because of these limits set and settle for talking to them and sending them to Dave's shop on a non event day.  Sadly most of those people probably never bothered.  THe mass ascention is the only way Dave can get the crowd actually flying but Dave can explain it better. THere are a lot of legalities involved I don't fully understand myself.

Now putting out the word to the schools, local bands and performers inviting them to come out and play might be a great idea to add to the party but only Dave can find out the legalities on that and the cost.  I doubt anyone but the schools would play for free.  I know HB has requested him to put on a more formal festival but the big festivals are a ton of work that goes on for months before hand and can be expensive.  Planning for our small ballon/kite fest here in RIpon in september usually starts in january and will take until august sometimes before everything is set for the 2 day event.

Yeah, raves are different in Europe, that I do know... And it was just an example that I could speak of, from my own (short) life experience.

I wasn't saying a kite club should create a huge event by itself. I wasn't thinking about that big of events at all. I was thinking more along the lines of asking an existing, local and suitable event if you could join in some way, have an area where you could fly your kites. I don't think they would charge you anything, especially if you're not there trying to make a profit financially. Of course, I don't know anything about how things work over there (legally), or even how they work over here (never tried to create an event), but I'm sure that where there's a will, there's a way. Smiley
And if there's nothing wrong with the current kite parties and you are happy with the results (getting the wanted amount of new people involved, and maintaining the current image of kiting) then don't mind about my opinions/guesses/suggestions. (Then again why was this thread created...)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 03:58 PM by Mayfirst » Logged
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« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2013, 04:09 PM »

Suggestions are always good.  Just remember the "F" word is taboo when talking about KP Tongue  I really think its the informal semi structured way its done that appeals to people.  Doesn't have the rush around because you only have 30 min until the next show starts kind of feel that a lot of people don't like about places like Marine world.  You can come out, relax and enjoy the spectacle however you want.
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« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2013, 04:13 PM »

(Then again why was this thread created...)

To stir a little chit I'm guessing.
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« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2013, 04:18 PM »

Personally ----

I like KP just the way it is.  I think the format is awesome, the Demo's are great and the crowd loves them, they are minimal so we all get plenty of time to fly.  If I had my choice of going to a Festival or Kite Party, I would pick Kite Party every time!!!

I think Dave has the perfect layout and design, if I ever get around to scheduling an event here in Vegas, I would copy Dave's format to the letter.

I thought the music was excellent and had a very good mix to it.  If you don't like the music, bring your own, just don't complain about it and put a bad taste to such a wonderful event.

Actually, if the music is the only thing you can B#$%c about, that really says just how good the event is.

Don't change a thing Dave, I feel the majority of the attendees and spectators enjoyed the event (all that I talked to anyways) and we all know you will never be able to please everyone.

This opinion is mine and mine only and is worth exactly what you paid for it. Smiley
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« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2013, 04:36 PM »

I was just referring to the post about how youth is hard to get involved. But it seems majority of you don't even want much younger people included to your parties. Maybe you guys are afraid you wouldn't feel welcome or like it's "your thing" anymore if kites and kite parties became younger adults thing? Wink

We had a small gallery thingie 2007 here in in the Craft Museum of Finland where they had all kinds of kites on the walls and ceilings presented as art. After seeing the pictures, I think the idea was absolutely brilliant. Too bad I missed that one too, never even heard of it until I searched for a local kite club. But it's just another example of how kites can be promoted without a kite party.
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« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2013, 04:42 PM »

To Gamelord: +++10

To Mayfirst: gads.
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« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2013, 06:21 PM »

I get the original intent of the thread; play something different. Yes some of the music that gets played at our festival is "dated". Yeh im sick of hearing it too.
Could they play something "newer", maybe but I dont think that it gets more attention.  It's not a concert.
Want a mix? Pick a pandora channel. I really think that it is possible to fly demos to alot of music. But I dont fly ballet, teams or revs
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