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Author Topic: Just my 2 cents  (Read 3279 times)
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Mayfirst
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« on: March 17, 2013, 08:05 PM »

I'm starting a new topic on this because I'm getting tired of seeing "hi-jacked" on each topic I respond to. I'm making a formal request that the admins don't add that word on this topic no matter where it goes.

I'm actually getting a bit offended here. There seem to be several topics where the discussion has turned to the fact that kites seem only to be part of the lives of old farts who are looking to escape their every day life and duties with the hobby. Many say they wish there was more people involved, they complain about the lack of young adults, yet those same people also bash and belittle them every chance they get. So is it any wonder why there aren't any? Men seem to belittle every younger newcomer, and women get all territorial when another female shows interest.
So what is it you guys want? This definitely isn't a way to gain more active members. I definitely see now why there aren't more people who keep their interest, no one cares about getting hazed in order to join your "private club".

Not exactly a great way to promote kites.
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2013, 08:10 PM »

I think your misunderstanding a lot.  Being from "across the pond" I'm sure there are different attitudes you deal with. Lord knows I avoid threads on FA a lot because of how the rib women.  Here its getting better, at least in my area, when it comes to kiting but there is a break in age range at 16 ish to about 30 where kites seem to be labled kids stuff unless your talking about a power foil.  I spend a lot of time while flying talking to and teaching potential new fliers and its always the young or 30+ that get  hooked. Unless I pull out a power foil, most teens to 25 ish that try think its "ok but no real thrill"  Pull out a power foil and they are all smiles after getting dragged across the field.

My nephew liked to fly until he hit 15 and got big into gaming and now kites are passe' and you can't get him away from his comp hardly.  The attitude of the young adult generation is disturbing.  They all seem to want "instant gratification".  It doen't just apply to kiting but everyday life.  I stopped hiring HIghschool age kids for workers because I have yet to find one that stays when they find out they actually have to work.  A lot of teen-colledge age kids pick up a kite and when they can't do everything they see us long time fliers do they get mad and go back to their comps and cell phones.  THey don't generally want to put in the effort to learn.  Thankfully I'm running into more and more lately that are loosing that attitude but ironically its mostly young women that have asked me to teach them how to fly lately and are more patient when learning.

The newest members of our fly group in ripon are 23-26 year old colledge girls and they are just fun to watch as they learn and fly.  At Kite Party last year it was the women that showed the most interest, especially after the womens rev fly.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 08:14 PM by Ca Ike » Logged
Mayfirst
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« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2013, 08:20 PM »

I think your misunderstanding a lot.  Being from "across the pond" I'm sure there are different attitudes you deal with. Lord knows I avoid threads on FA a lot because of how the rib women.  Here its getting better, at least in my area, when it comes to kiting but there is a break in age range at 16 ish to about 30 where kites seem to be labled kids stuff unless your talking about a power foil.  I spend a lot of time while flying talking to and teaching potential new fliers and its always the young or 30+ that get  hooked. Unless I pull out a power foil, most teens to 25 ish that try think its "ok but no real thrill"  Pull out a power foil and they are all smiles after getting dragged across the field.

My nephew liked to fly until he hit 15 and got big into gaming and now kites are passe' and you can't get him away from his comp hardly.  The attitude of the young adult generation is disturbing.  They all seem to want "instant gratification".  It doen't just apply to kiting but everyday life.  I stopped hiring HIghschool age kids for workers because I have yet to find one that stays when they find out they actually have to work.  A lot of teen-colledge age kids pick up a kite and when they can't do everything they see us long time fliers do they get mad and go back to their comps and cell phones.  THey don't generally want to put in the effort to learn.  Thankfully I'm running into more and more lately that are loosing that attitude but ironically its mostly young women that have asked me to teach them how to fly lately and are more patient when learning.

Maybe the distance does play it's part, but I was mainly talking about the general attitude I'm feeling on This forum.

Even if you add up the adrenaline junkies and the nerds, it still doesn't cover even half of the 20-somethings. Majority are just normal people that go to school or work all day and MAYBE have time for hobbies and friends. Many are getting married and starting their families and all that so they are hardly looking for adventures anymore. Those are the ones that don't come on forums. So it does bother me when there's this whole high-school mentality over here towards the ones that do have the time and energy to think about what they want to do with their free time.
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2013, 09:43 PM »

Your partly right.  Free time is becoming less and less with how employers are treating workers these days.  I had a friend that got fired because he took a day off to come to the ballon/kite fest we do every year and wasn't available when his boss called to see if he would come in.  Not and "on call day" just a day he wasn't scheduled but his boss and the company seem to think he should be full time availability when its a part time job.  Now when you get into the school thing it gets even worse.  My youngest nephew is in 4th grade and gets over 5 hours of homework every night. 

Thats only part of the equation though.  The generations of the 20 somethings and younger have gotten and increasingly "i want it now" attitude.  YOu look at video games and how many kids get mad at the gaming companies if they can't beat a game or get to the high content in a week or less.  I see kids all the time throwing temper tantrums in stores when they are told they have to wait for that $400 game console because its not in the budget this week.  WHEn out flying and I get asked how long it takes to learn all the tricks i know and I tell them it can take several weeks just to learn one trick I get the reply of "why bother trying if it takes so long to learn?" or "if it takes more than a few minutes its not worth doing" It's sad really.  I even had one kid that would rather fly a kite in a simulator on his Iphone than a real one because "real kites are too much work".

The majority of the people on this forum though would stop and talk to anyone that shows any interest and offer to hand them the lines and kiters are some of the most generous people I have ever met.  WHat comes across in a forum post isn't always as clear as we would like it to be and until you get to know some of these people what may be a sarcastic comment will seem genuine.  Thats just the nature of the written word, attitude doesn't always come across the way you want it too Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2013, 10:41 PM »

The insight you've gained in less than 2 weeks as a forum member is amazing. I was involved in the creation of this forum over 11 years ago and for all but the 1st 6 months I have been the "owner and administrator" of the forum. If I have learned one thing in all these years it is that it's impossible to make a general statement about this community or the kiting community as a whole other than to say we all possess a passion for kiting.
I've always felt that it goes without saying that the opinions expressed on this forum are solely those of the individual expressing said opinion.
You are covering a whole lot of people with that incredibly broad brush you are using. And as much as I love this old forum it is by no means an accurate reflection of the kiting community, nor is it intended to be.
Oh and a belated Happy St.Uhro's Day!
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 11:05 PM by Admin » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2013, 11:02 PM »

1. Welcome to the internet.
2. You're right.
3. As long as you enjoy flying your kite, you're doing it right.
4. Belittling statements include labels like 'old farts' so in truth, you'll fit right in.
5. Hopefully you'll stay and contribute to change for the better.
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Mayfirst
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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2013, 11:03 PM »

I didn't say all, I said many. I'm not generalizing anymore than those 'many' have generalized us 20 somethings during my time here. How long do you think it takes to create an opinion on something? Quite a bit less than two weeks. My frustration is pointed at the many comments on how to gain more popularity and how to get younger adults involved, as it seems that no matter what I say, I get stomped on. Maybe it's not my age, maybe it's personal, who knows. But it takes just a couple of times of constant negativity to decide not to participate anymore, so no wonder the amount of active members isn't rising amongst my age group if this is what others face as well. There is an obvious "insiders group" that intimidates others enough not to stay around. And I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, but I rather talk about this than quit without saying anything.
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Mayfirst
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« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2013, 11:12 PM »

4. Belittling statements include labels like 'old farts' so in truth, you'll fit right in.

Yeah, of course I can do it too, I just don't consider it mature or "part of the fun", or that it's something I want to continue to do. I love good humor as much as the next guy, but when it becomes personal... I guess I have an issue with bullies.
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2013, 11:28 PM »

I'm close to being one of the "Old Fart" Kiters Tongue. Better to be and old fat than a smelly fart Tongue
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Mayfirst
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« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2013, 11:40 PM »

I'm close to being one of the "Old Fart" Kiters Tongue. Better to be and old fat than a smelly fart Tongue

Indeed. Smiley Nothing wrong with "the old timers", that is not what I'm saying at all. Age isn't the issue to me, but as I said, I get the feeling there's this invisible line drawn between over and under 30s and all hell breaks loose when an under 30 tries to join the over 30s. There's several hobbies where "the inside circle" thing shows, whether it comes from age or experience, but I just never thought kiting would be one of those hobbies.
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« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2013, 11:46 PM »

For the record I am not a big fan of this 'hijacked' tag that is being added to the thread titles. Not something I condone and not something I understand … we're having conversations here and they tend to ebb and flow and just because they don't go the way you wanted them to it seems rather childish to tag them with the seemingly pejorative term hijack.
But then that's just my opinion.

And I will be shutting up now as I think I have posted more tonight than I have in the past 6 months or at least since I had my stroke
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Mayfirst
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« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2013, 11:54 PM »

For the record I am not a big fan of this 'hijacked' tag that is being added to the thread titles. Not something I condone and not something I understand … we're having conversations here and they tend to ebb and flow and just because they don't go the way you wanted them to it seems rather childish to tag them with the seemingly pejorative term hijack.
But then that's just my opinion.

And I will be shutting up now as I think I have posted more tonight than I have in the past 6 months or at least since I had my stroke

I'm actually relieved to hear you share my opinion on at least this one. Cheesy

It was heartbreaking to read about your situation when I first joined here, even though I don't know you. I sincerely hope you get well soon! I'll definitely contribute to your situation by buying a kite or parts from you as soon as you start selling those. Smiley God, that just makes me sad to say that. I don't actually want you to have to sell anything...
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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2013, 12:03 AM »

Actually I agree with much of for you said. I was just warning against generalizations.
As you might guess I know a fair number of forum members (many personally) and the overwhelming majority are accepting and encouraging of all comers into our little … sport… hobby… pastime… whatever
… But really, is there a community without an ass hole or 2?I think not
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Mayfirst
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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2013, 12:07 AM »

Actually I agree with much of for you said. I was just warning against generalizations.
As you might guess I know a fair number of forum members (many personally) and the overwhelming majority are accepting and encouraging of all comers into our little … sport… hobby… pastime… whatever
… But really, is there a community without an ass hole or 2?I think not

Well said. Smiley
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Ara Ararauna
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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2013, 01:16 AM »

1. I consider myself young (46 ?!)
2. I have never felt offended or noticed any aggressiveness in this forum.
3. I think it is ONLY reasonable to keep the topic of a thread.
4. It is Incredibly easy to start a new thread with a new topic and everybody will gladly contribute to it.
5. I think this policy keeps topics clean and easy to search for information.
6. I think you have been aggressive against a community that works by its own inertia. Nobody forces anyone to be here.
7. I have been here for a bit more than a year because I feel well accepted and I have been helped A LOT and my flying has improved very much thanks to the kind help of many.
8. I think there is no need to use insulting terms. I believe in freedom of speech but also in politeness and respect.
9. Because of this freedom I think every thread author is free to tag his/her thread as being "hijacked" (it is not the admins). So if they feel their topic must be kept, you must respect their decision (also refer to point 4.). Otherwise it is you the one who is offending.
10. I hope you can recover your path within this community and make a clear "reset".

Best regards.
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