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Author Topic: Slot Machine Help  (Read 2321 times)
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drmndrew82
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« on: April 01, 2013, 12:33 PM »

Hi Everyone,

I have been working on the slot machine for some time now. I find that it is easier in much lower winds and on the edge of the window. I was talking to an experienced kite flier and he said that this trick needs a set up that the half axel does not. He recommended that I give the bottom wing a small push before doing the two pops with top wing. I was just wondering if anyone has any pointers that might help me get this trick down on a more consistent basis. Thanks

Drew
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chilese
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« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2013, 01:14 PM »

Try every variation you can think of.

Settle on the one you like the best.

Every kite is a little different (they are made by people after all).  Smiley
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John Chilese: Las Vegas, NV
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Bob D
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« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2013, 05:16 AM »

Check out RandyG's tutorial at Kiteclique.com. You'll really get an idea of what the set up should look like. You'll definitely want to learn at the edge of the wind window in lower wind. (I like 7 mph or so.)
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Bob D.
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« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2013, 07:05 AM »


How does you slot machine look. what is working and what is not.
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lylenc
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« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2013, 07:46 AM »

 Just reviewed Randy G's video. It uses a small set-up push on the top wing (not the bottom wing) before the two pops on the top wing.
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Craig     Walla Walla, WA     Just One More!
drmndrew82
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« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2013, 09:08 AM »

Thanks for the help everyone. My slot machine looks great sometimes and other times doesn't. It is really inconsistent. Usually it doesn't rotate correctly when I have problems. I know about giving lots of slack, but I think the rotation timing is off. It may be the second pop that I am having problems with. I can do half axles and cascades no problem. Is the first pop the same as a half axle or is something different? I am going to check out Randy G's video and watch it over and over until I can see what the timing looks like. Thanks again.
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« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2013, 09:36 AM »

For me, it's a 3 input trick if you count the setup, which is like the setup for a half axel.

So, from right to left,
- small pop/tug on the lower wing in order to setup.  It's really as minimal as possible, you shouldn't really see it unless you are looking for it.
- pop the right hand in order to flatten the kite out a bit
- pop the right again for the rotation.  Step forward to allow the kite to rotate, then pull both to fly off.

This is how I do them, others do it differently.  Also, whenever you tug or pop on one hand, you are due tensioning or even slacking the other.


Good luck.
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jaydub
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« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2013, 09:51 AM »

Both a small pop on the lower wing or giving the upper wing slack both work for the first input; it's just a matter of preference.  It's easier to learn if you don't try and get the kite too flat so don't let it get as afr as the flare position.  Getting the spine at 45 degrees to the vertical and horizontal axes works for most kites.

The second input is much shorter than the final input for the rotation' however don't think of it as a long pull otherwise you will struggle with the slack.  More of a small pop for the second input followed by a firmer pop for the rotation.  These inputs can be very close together as well (although I suspect that is kite dependent).
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madhabitz
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« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2013, 10:29 AM »

I've got to add my thanks as well. Tom and Jay, I am so excited! Your words help to make things so clear. You guys should get together to write out step-by-steps like this to go along with all the tricks. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but your instructions are to the point and very clear.

Thank you!

Nancy

P.S. Drew, hope to see you again sometime out at EmGlen park. It's great that there is another person (and all your kites) to add to our slowly growing group.
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"I haven't failed. I've just found ten-thousand ways that won't work."   -Thomas Edison
jaydub
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« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2013, 01:34 PM »

Nancy,

Hold on the praise till you know it's made the difference. Wink

It's one thing knowing the theory and another putting it into practice.  Slots didn't come easy to me, but they proved much easier than tazes!!

Jon
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madhabitz
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« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2013, 06:11 PM »

Nancy,

Hold on the praise till you know it's made the difference. Wink

It's one thing knowing the theory and another putting it into practice.  Slots didn't come easy to me, but they proved much easier than tazes!!

Jon

Naw, you guys deserve it. Combining the information from both of you was perfect- you each have a way of breaking down the steps involved, plus you included a lot of the nuances and gave us some meaningful wording. Clear and concise. Awesome!
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"I haven't failed. I've just found ten-thousand ways that won't work."   -Thomas Edison
fidelio
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« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2013, 08:23 PM »

The relationship of the strength of the pops changes as wind speed increases. When the wind is low the rotational input may need to be the strongest, but as wind speed increases the pop before the rotation becomes the strongest and the rotational input becomes more about the slack which follows it.
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Fdeli
drmndrew82
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« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2013, 08:57 PM »

@fidelio: You are absolutely right and your comment helped a lot. When the wind picked up the first pop had to be stronger. I think this may have been part of my problem. I was trying to do small pop, big pop, even in higher wind. When I went out flying today I think I started to make some progress. I do tend to get tip wrap quite often when doing this trick though.

@Nancy: I was out there again today. I guess you guys aren't going on Thursdays anymore. Hopefully I see you out there soon. I just got my Blue Moon Mongoose today. I'll let you try it out when I see you next. It looks awesome and bigger than my other kites.

@tpatter: I like that you mentioned to step forward. That helped me today as well.

@jaydub: You made a ton of sense with the positioning on the kite. I have been focusing too much on timing, but I think this trick is a positioning trick more than anything.

@lylenc: I do my half axles with the set up push so I think it should be easy for me to set up this trick. I think my main issue is either the intensity of the pops or the slack during and after the pops.

@chilese: These tricks seem to be all about muscle memory. The weird thing about this trick is that I can do it, just not all the time. I guess I need to build my muscle memory during all wind conditions. Maybe the answer to all my problems is just hours on the field.

@Bob D: I watched the Randy G video a few minutes ago right after I got back from flying and I think the timing of the pops is a problem for me. I think I have been doing the second pop too early before I have the kite in the right position.

Thanks again for the input everyone. I call it a work in progress. When I get better at them I will post a video.
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madhabitz
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« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2013, 02:53 PM »


@Nancy: I was out there again today. I guess you guys aren't going on Thursdays anymore. Hopefully I see you out there soon. I just got my Blue Moon Mongoose today. I'll let you try it out when I see you next. It looks awesome and bigger than my other kites.

Hey Drew, weekdays are hit or miss for the guys right now. When the light begins to stay longer, they will be out there more and more. When the Farmer's Market starts (May?), you will see them out there every Thurs. They also fly a lot on the weekends.

I work nights and my days off change from week to week, so I am the most inconsistent one. PM me your phone number and I will text you when I know they plan to fly. You're welcome to text us when you are flying, as well. The more the better, eh?

Nancy
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"I haven't failed. I've just found ten-thousand ways that won't work."   -Thomas Edison
Ca Ike
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« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2013, 07:22 PM »

Some good advice in here but the one thing that helped me a lot is to step back and realize what the essential trick is.   Be it a slot, taz, cascade, comete, snap lazy or whatever trick your working on you can pretty much look at it as a trick you already know or should know by now.  I this case your basically doing a 360 or 540 once you initiate the rotation.  The main difference is how you get into the 540 position.  Instead of flaring from a dive you are using a half axel input to get into the flare. Once you hit that half axel input your hands should be in the same position as you would be for a regular 540 for the rotation input.

For the slot(flying right to left) what I do to is ignore the bottom wing suggested inputs as they don't really work for me.  I let the top wing(right hand) back just slightly before popping the half axel input. Once I pop the top wing, I move my left hand forward immediately keeping the right hand back just as I would for a 540 and tug for the rotation.  Do a few 540's and get the uneven flare set in your mind as that is the position you want to get the kite into for the slot or taz.  How uneven that needs to be is kite dependent.  I will tell you though, if you have issues with the half axel and 540 still you will have a hard time learning the slot and taz.
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