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Author Topic: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?  (Read 2457 times)
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Ara Ararauna
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« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2013, 07:35 AM »

Wow!
Thanks so much for all your kind and rich feedback! (I was actually expecting no less from you all, thanks really).  Smiley

OK, I agree I have to clarify what I really want to do.

However, I think I was quite focussed when I started with the reference to the Aura.

It is exactly what I see in that video what I want to do, trick-wise and wind-wise.

Many of you have sort of placed the limitation of a duality I would have to chose from, namely:
* either I want to fly in really no wind -> which leads to a really light but untrickable kite
* or I want to be able to do tricks -> which leads to a not 100% SUL because it has to have greater mass

But I see that the Aura does beautifully in tricks of all sorts with incredible elegance and smoothness AND it ONLY weighs 4ounces!!!  Huh
So this would be a living proof that the best of both worlds is possible!

So the more I think and read about SUL's the more impressed I am with these specs of the Aura and the more interested I am on it.
So... when is it going to be available!  Cry
 Wink

Thanks all for all the other recommendations.

Some sound good:

Veyron SUL: thanks Krijn, it is nice but the price is not!  Sad  320 !!!
The old school kites: great but I really want a new school kite. If I ever buy myself an old school SUL I will get me a Vapor (so I better start saving money  Wink  )
Seven: not really SUL so does not accomplish what I want...
Essence: nice building opportunity but no time and not really SUL
Widowmaker: I'm sorry to disagree with so much people, but I have never liked the sail layout (I know it is childish to place the design before the flying, but I will be seeing it many hours)
Lam's kites: again, I just don't like their design. Plus the SULs are around 7 or 8 Oz so not "true" SULs.
Ocius: sounds good but it looks also a bit old school... however it could be a possibility... but it does not seem to be as capable as the Aura
HQ Shadow: not really an SUL and would not be a good idea having the Talon UL
Talon SUL: great to hear the Talons will still be available, despite the new conditions. It would be a huge loss if the Talons go out of production. The SUL would be agood option but, as I said in my first post, I would like to try different beasts (if only budget was not an issue...)

So I hope this review can help other people too.
In my case it has helped me a lot.
I think that I have now a very clear idea that the Aura is the one to go for... if it actually starts to be commercialized...  Sad

Thanks all!  Cheesy




« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 07:38 AM by Ara Ararauna » Logged

In my bag...
Duals: NoName (NoBrand), Nexus (Prism), Soul (Flying Wings), Talon UL (JoE), LeQuartz (own build), Illusion Classic (Prism), Aura SUL custom (Skyburner), Sixth Sense STD (Krijn)
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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2013, 08:04 AM »

Wow, first Blue moon, now Joe.
We need to find a way to re-energize the kite world before we lose all the boutique kite makers!
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chilese
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« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2013, 08:06 AM »

Not only are your (JoE) kites excellent tricksters, but your

eye for design layout and attention to detail are exceptional.

The vented Talon gets my vote for best looking vented sport kite.  Smiley

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John Chilese: Las Vegas, NV
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« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2013, 08:17 AM »

Wow, first Blue moon, now Joe.
We need to find a way to re-energize the kite world before we lose all the boutique kite makers!

Yeh Aerostar before that Cry
I think Joe is going the same way Paul did before closing up completely
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Sine Metu!
Hadge
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« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2013, 09:01 AM »


HQ Shadow: not really an SUL and would not be a good idea having the Talon UL



2 things :-

Thing 1 - The Shadow is very very close to a SUL - it will fly down to a touch below 1.5 mph on short lines with a bit of movement. Looking at the Aura video, it will do most of that with 2mph of wind or maybe a little less. It also costs a lot less - The Veyron may well be better, but the Shadow costs around 125 if you shop around and thats good value for money. It's also pretty tough which leads to....

...Thing 2 - Remember that real SUL/indoor/NO wind kites can also be pretty fragile....Skyshark Zero..2 PT thats VERY light. If you catch a gust with something like that it could be expensive - the Shadow can be flown in 12mph ( though I wouldn't recommend it!) so if you get a gust it's not so bad.

« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 09:04 AM by Hadge » Logged

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In the bag - HQ Shadow, Prism 4D, Flying Wings Soul Mid Vent, HQ Jive (1), Spiderkites Zodarion, 'Paw' modded HQ Maestro ll, HQ Delta Hawk.
Allen Carter
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« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2013, 09:33 AM »

Keep in mind that overall weight is not necessarily and indication of wind range. All the kites discussed above vary in wingspan and sail shape. An 8' 8oz kite might have a lower range than a 7' 6oz kite.

Flying in very low or no wind is a very, very different skill set (and mind set) than flying in real wind. Keep in mind that many kites which are enjoyable at 2MPH for an experienced flyer are very hard to keep in the air at all for someone new to light wind flying. Light wind is, more often than not, variable wind. One of the biggest frustrations is when you get the kite going and the wind dies. Over and over again.  Cry

Having a kite that will stay in the air during lulls is great for learning. I suggest something very light and inexpensive like the 4D to get the hang of keeping the kite in the air. This might be a short lived kite in your bag, but you'll enjoy the expensive SUL that comes after it a lot more.
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Ara Ararauna
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« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2013, 01:31 PM »

Thanks Steve and Allen.

Steve, OK I understand about the Shadow, although I still don't have even an idea of the price of the Aura. Hence I cannot compare there.

Steve and Allen, I understand the difficulty of flying in almost no air. I have tried that with my Talon UL many times out of the need to fly when there's no wind. I have learnt to keep the kite in the air by rowing gently and going smoothly through curves, etc. So I think I am on my way to knowing how to deal with an SUL. Although I acknowledge that I still have a loooong way ahead. But this also means that I will be using the SUL really only when there is really low wind, otherwise I'll be using the Talon UL. This means the probability of having a strong gust is low. So I'm aware of the fragility of SULs and I'll minimise risks.

I know it is a whole different league and I know I'll need an adaptation phase. But I think I also understand the limits and I have other kites that allow me to use the SUL adequately...

Of course it would be great to try all/many/some of the kites you have all mentioned. It would be great to have people show me. But the very few people that fly kites close to me only have STD's and mostly very standard brands/models such as Eolo Over...
So I can't get any help there and I have to imagine what each kite is like.

I will think a bit more about it, re-read all the information in this and other threads, wait to have the price for the Aura (!), and then I'll take a decision.

So thanks again.
Cheers.


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In my bag...
Duals: NoName (NoBrand), Nexus (Prism), Soul (Flying Wings), Talon UL (JoE), LeQuartz (own build), Illusion Classic (Prism), Aura SUL custom (Skyburner), Sixth Sense STD (Krijn)
Singles: Conyne STD (my design)
Hadge
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« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2013, 01:41 PM »

Hi Ara,

It's all the the tecnique....not an easy thing to learn, but when you have it's amazing how little wind you need....even no wind at all....

 Wink


Indoor Over Eolo Sport
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Ara Ararauna
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« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2013, 02:08 PM »

Hi Ara,

It's all the the tecnique....not an easy thing to learn, but when you have it's amazing how little wind you need....even no wind at all....

 Wink


Great Steve!

This reminds me that the other thing I must get is a pair of short lines because I only have a 20m and a 25m sets and when air is really low I would probably be able to get more out of my Talon UL with a 15m or even 10m set (I still have some unused thread).

Am I right?

What would be a good set of lines for low wind?

Cheers.

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In my bag...
Duals: NoName (NoBrand), Nexus (Prism), Soul (Flying Wings), Talon UL (JoE), LeQuartz (own build), Illusion Classic (Prism), Aura SUL custom (Skyburner), Sixth Sense STD (Krijn)
Singles: Conyne STD (my design)
RobB
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« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2013, 04:05 PM »

I fly 65' 100# lines in ~2mph of wind, and 50' 50# lines in less than 1mph of wind... with a full sized kite. With a little kite like the 4D, I use 30' 50# line. I never fly any shorter, but that's just my preference...
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Wayner
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« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2013, 06:19 PM »


This reminds me that the other thing I must get is a pair of short lines because I only have a 20m and a 25m sets and when air is really low I would probably be able to get more out of my Talon UL with a 15m or even 10m set (I still have some unused thread).

Am I right?

What would be a good set of lines for low wind?

Cheers.

I fly my Talon UL on 20 & 25m 50# line sets.

Flying on something shorter is good for practice. Helps to see tip wraps or how the kite is reacting to your inputs. But, really short lines reduce your wind window, giving you little time to set up for each trick.   


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Wayner
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« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2013, 09:38 PM »

Many of you have sort of placed the limitation of a duality I would have to chose from, namely:
* either I want to fly in really no wind -> which leads to a really light but untrickable kite
* or I want to be able to do tricks -> which leads to a not 100% SUL because it has to have greater mass
Ara, No one in the kiting community wants to place a limitation on your choices.  Grin  We all want the same thing. This is a fight against the law of physics. Huh

Lots of time effort and money have been spent trying to break the laws of physics for us kite flyers.   


I see that the Aura does beautifully in tricks of all sorts with incredible elegance and smoothness AND it ONLY weighs 4ounces!!!  Huh
So this would be a living proof that the best of both worlds is possible!
I talked to Jon today. Their are TWO SUL versions being built as prototypes and they TRICK DIFFERENTLY
  - a 4oz version uses zero air rods designed for indoor use. 
  - a 5oz version uses 2PT rods.

Jon likes the 2PT 5oz version. The air zero version preforms well indoors but does not have the same trick abililties and maybe to light.

A ul version using 3PT rods is also being tested. Sounds like its small size will let it fly in standard winds.



I think I was quite focussed when I started with the reference to the Aura.

It is exactly what I see in that video what I want to do, trick-wise and wind-wise.
Looks like this is the 5oz version. I know this is the version I have been flying and want to buy.  Wink



So the more I think and read about SUL's the more impressed I am with these specs of the Aura and the more interested I am on it.
So... when is it going to be available!  Cry


Jon has no specfic date for production. Issues like which version(s) to produce, cost, sail colors and patterns, etc still had to be finalized. Doesn't mean you can't order one. Jon has made some different versions of the kite. Maybe these would be classified as prototypes, since the final specs have not been set. You could alway order one built using the rods and weight your want.
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PUZZLE
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« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2013, 10:41 PM »

i got the ocius sul (just over 4.5oz)for the light days but after  i got the widowmaker ul it doesnt get much air time Smiley love both kites
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Hadge
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« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2013, 02:18 AM »

If you are going to fly in no/V. low winds say 0-2 mph then a set of 10m x 50lb (20kg?) lines will help even with something like the Talon UL BUT you will have a very limited window and you will need to keep moveing most of the time. I don't bother with straps on short lines, just hook my fingers through the loops - some folks don't even sleeve short line sets though I prefer to. My short sets  ( 10m +15m) were made from a cut down set of standard 50 lb HQ dyneema lineset I got with a kite years ago.
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Age and cunning will always overcome youth and skill!

In the bag - HQ Shadow, Prism 4D, Flying Wings Soul Mid Vent, HQ Jive (1), Spiderkites Zodarion, 'Paw' modded HQ Maestro ll, HQ Delta Hawk.
Ara Ararauna
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« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2013, 02:37 AM »

Many of you have sort of placed the limitation of a duality I would have to chose from, namely:
* either I want to fly in really no wind -> which leads to a really light but untrickable kite
* or I want to be able to do tricks -> which leads to a not 100% SUL because it has to have greater mass
Ara, No one in the kiting community wants to place a limitation on your choices.  Grin  We all want the same thing. This is a fight against the law of physics. Huh

Lots of time effort and money have been spent trying to break the laws of physics for us kite flyers.   

Thanks Wayne. I know there was no intention of limiting me.  Smiley
By "limitation" I only meant that the current popular knowledge poses this binary choice. Not that people were artificially doing so. I just wanted to state that I saw the other possibility.

I see that the Aura does beautifully in tricks of all sorts with incredible elegance and smoothness AND it ONLY weighs 4ounces!!!  Huh
So this would be a living proof that the best of both worlds is possible!
I talked to Jon today. Their are TWO SUL versions being built as prototypes and they TRICK DIFFERENTLY
  - a 4oz version uses zero air rods designed for indoor use. 
  - a 5oz version uses 2PT rods.

Jon likes the 2PT 5oz version. The air zero version preforms well indoors but does not have the same trick abililties and maybe to light.

A ul version using 3PT rods is also being tested. Sounds like its small size will let it fly in standard winds.

I think I was quite focussed when I started with the reference to the Aura.

It is exactly what I see in that video what I want to do, trick-wise and wind-wise.
Looks like this is the 5oz version. I know this is the version I have been flying and want to buy.  Wink

Yep, it does sound like the 5oz is the thing I'm looking for.


So the more I think and read about SUL's the more impressed I am with these specs of the Aura and the more interested I am on it.
So... when is it going to be available!  Cry


Jon has no specfic date for production. Issues like which version(s) to produce, cost, sail colors and patterns, etc still had to be finalized. Doesn't mean you can't order one. Jon has made some different versions of the kite. Maybe these would be classified as prototypes, since the final specs have not been set. You could alway order one built using the rods and weight your want.


OK, I will contact him to see what can be done...
Thanks!
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In my bag...
Duals: NoName (NoBrand), Nexus (Prism), Soul (Flying Wings), Talon UL (JoE), LeQuartz (own build), Illusion Classic (Prism), Aura SUL custom (Skyburner), Sixth Sense STD (Krijn)
Singles: Conyne STD (my design)
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