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np
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« on: April 23, 2013, 01:35 PM »

 Smiley
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red sweater
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2013, 01:41 PM »

Definitely a BOLD experiment. Wink
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2013, 02:06 PM »

I for one hope you keep doing the trick challenges. Simple tricks or complex. There are alot of people who lurk and watch the videos even if they dont post one. There maybe many "aha" moments in any of the videos posted for all to learn something.
There is always something to be said for flying with someone and I encourage all fliers to not only go and fly with someone but watch how they fly. I learned alot from watching Paul Shirey and Ben F and pestering both to do a trick over and over for me.(Paul where have you gotten off too?? Cry )
But if you cant fly with someone I think posting some video and have others look it over is a big help. Plus its entertaining to watch when you cant fly!

Now Norm get out in the crappy inland wind and show us what the gem ul can do!
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Ara Ararauna
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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2013, 02:50 PM »

Norm you've surely made me start trying the fade once and again. Still haven't got it but I'm on my way.

I feel I have a horizon to head for thanks to your challenges.
Of course one can define his/her own challenges to move forward in learning. But it is not the same.
Moreover, when you are a beginner you don't have a clear idea of the type of challenges you should be defining for yourself.
And on the other hand, those of us that have no flying mates really praise being able to enter this community of the forums and the smaller communities of the challenges.
They give you communication, tips, advice, shelter and support in general.

So all in all they are not only a fun activity to sign up for, but they are really welcome from my side.
Despite I sometimes don't have time to try them, or don't have the opportunity to record myself, or I don't have time to participate in the threads, you can be sure I keep checking them, reading the suggestions and tips and having them in my head to try to figure out how I will achieve them when I get to try them.

Please keep them going.
Thanks!
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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2013, 03:11 PM »

Definitely worked for me Norm , and long may they continue , i cant speak for the rest of the http://www.facebook.com/northernmonkeyskitegroup.nmkg  , Ian should have the fade challenge on video completed weekend just passed.


Yeah + 1 on doing some more Norm


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Wayner
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« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2013, 04:18 PM »


+1

Norm,
Will have more comment tomorrow after my latest test.
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« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2013, 06:03 PM »

ditto Ara  +1

  I also am a close follower... little poster. I may not have made it tip priority.. but while on the field i will find myself trying to hold to hold a fade just a bit longer as i think about your challenge... so does it have an effect on people... it sure as h.. does!   please keep it up.

My abilities are far below my expectations,,but improving at a good clip now... and i am certain to read (for the 10th time) the "challenge again when i am ready!  it may be 2 weeks or 2 months.

as far as YOUR WAY... everyone learns different.  My biggest problem is TIMING and HOW MUCH(pull/slack ect).  everything kinda happens to fast for me in videos.. I am a bit to methodical (slow)
so i need to read it multiple times, try it to see what happens.. then have someone correct my screw ups... guess that's where i need to get video..

i look forward to more challenges   Grin
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RobB
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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2013, 05:01 AM »

I enjoy your challenges and have made a concentrated effort to practice & perform the tricks. I've been able to meet the AVFFF challenge, just haven't gotten it on video, yet. That's a big part of it, is the ability to get the flying on video.

I get out for only a few hours per week, and the chances of getting good wind & a camera in the right place are slim. I can't remember the last time I had good wind to fly a dual line kite, it was probably 6 weeks ago, or more. As far as the learning curve... it took me over a year to learn to axel, same to learn the 540 (and most of the tricks I know). I think you just need to be more patient to allow for that. I would bet that others that don't have personal instructors will come up with the results that you hoped for, it's just going to take some time. (It took me a long time to learn the 540, but I've taught 2 people the 540 in person in one afternoon)

There used to be a very active group learning & teaching tricks on the Classy Kite forum in the days that new pilots weren't comfortable to post over here. I was learning most of my tricks from those threads, but even with lots of videos, and direct input from Martin & RandyG, it still took me months to learn a trick like the backspin. Take a look through, there's a lot of good information there...

http://classykite.org/ck/forum/YaBB.pl?board=tricktreat

Norm, I think you're doing a good thing (I'm glad someone picked up where CK left off), don't be discouraged by the slow progress. If I posted all of my 'Fail' videos, you'd have hours of comedy to watch, but it would be pretty boring after a while. Once the late winter/early spring winds calm down, I will get that AVFFF thing knocked out, and probably the double. I can fade most of my kites pretty well, but changing altitude while fading... not something I've tried doing much, and that's going to take some work. You're making me fly better, and I'm sure a lot of other people.
Thanks, Norm !

BTW... a Side Slide challenge might be good. I don't know how it would work, but it's an easy trick that is hard to master...

Some Side Slides...
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Smeagol
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« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2013, 10:41 PM »

I know the 2nd part. Wink

Wish I could make it to the kite fest.  Don't think I could do much flying though with this broken foot.  Sad

For what it's worth I think the trick challenges are a great idea.

-Mike
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Charles P
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« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2013, 11:13 PM »

Norm,

 The trick challenges are great and I sincerely hope you keep doing them. They inspire many of us to try different things and it GREATLY improves our capabilities.
  In my case, I never anything like the AVFFF until I found your (Norms) challenge. I found it very interesting and gave it my best and in this case, my tutor left me to my own devices and I figured it out through a lot of practice and some advise from Norm himself. I'm not going to hunt through the thread to find it but Norm gave some advise on doing the AVFFF and it did click with me.
 Now I have incorporated this trick in my first attempt to actually come up with a (little) routine. I have even added to the trick by going into the AVFFF to the point where you roll the kite up. I allow the kite to over rotate slightly so that the nose is low, then I do a quick sharp pull on one wing to get a kind of backspin/lazy susan out of it then pull to unroll. Awesome stuff which I would never have figured out or ever tried if it were not for Norms trick challenges.
 It can be pretty difficult to explain how to perform a trick through this type of media at times but it definitely CAN be done. I think it just takes someone to say the right thing in a way that us beginers can understand.
 Please don't stop the challenges Norm!!!    Cry

 Like a lot of other people who posted about the fade challenge, I am able to fade quite well but have never tried to hold one for a minute. Since that challenge was posted I can check the one minute fade off of my list, however, I can not check off changing my altitude and holding for 10 seconds just off the deck....... Yet!!!
 I am working on it but on a personal note, I put a lot of focused effort into the AVFFF and needed a slight reprieve from that sort of thing. I needed to get out and just flow with some freestyle for a bit.
  That said, I hope to post my fade challenge video sometime this summer.

 Keep em' coming Norm, your challenges are fun to do and the posts are fun to read as well.
   Smiley
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vertigo2u
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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2013, 09:36 PM »

Norm made me a believer a long time ago... It started with his Flight Straps ... That started me changing and getting better... This whole thread is worth re-reading... Simple I ditto everything said...

btw.  MKy knee is very healthy.  Doc gave O.K. my friend is in bad shape.  Two weeks ago he shattered Tiba Bone. Been visiting him almost daily. Henry Ford Hospital Detroit,Michigan... One of the Best..
Had to go to his home few times he lives 300 miles round trip.

Contact Jon T and ask him what he thinks of Norm's Straps.  Then hope he has some for sale....  Check web site...
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« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2013, 11:08 AM »

Hey Norm
        Iím not sure where you live but here in Buffalo NY, this is the first week of decent flying weather. Iíve been lurking on this forum the last three summers and just started checking out the forum for this flying season. When I saw the post with the trick challenge, it was like wow this could really be a big help. Then I read this post. I can understand you being frustrated about the lack of feed back, you had to spend a lot of time just writing up the challenges. I really hope you donít give up on the idea; already the fade challenge has made me a better flyer.

      Personally, Iím past the lawn dart stage but a true beginner to trick kite flying. Iíve got the DVDís, watched and down loaded the online videos and read everything I could find online. My biggest problem is, I fly at the best field in Western NY (on the Niagara River so we have clean air) and Iím the only one flying stunt kites. Thereís no one to show me how to fly or tell me what Iím doing wrong, itís all trial and mostly error. My first summer flying I spent watching Dodd Gross, learning the basics. I spent most of my second summer flying a new kite trying to learn how to ďpopĒ from the ground into a fade. Near the end of the summer, I read something online about petting a dog with a firm slow motion. It was like wow all this time following the DVDíS and their pop is someone elseís slow pull. Last summer I decided to spend the money and buy the Standard Widow maker- I still canít believe how the kite makes you look and feel like a better flyer. Felt like I had wasted the previous summer flying an inferior kite that was difficult to trick and really difficult to get into a fade. The Widow Maker turned out to be a fade machine and it also helped me learn how to stall properly (-?Huh). By the end of the summer I was concentrating on The Jacobís Ladder. Again my technique was way off; I was having a hard time with all aspects of the trick. I could do flic-flacs but with The Jacobís Ladder, I couldnít get the kite to flip over. Near the end of the season, for some reason I had to walk forward during the trick and the kite went over- it was then I realized I had to keep the kite floating. Again, more time wasted on trial and error. Yesterday I was out and was able to pull off three rungs of the ladder, with control and a feel for what the kite was doing- really was a neat feeling. Now Iím trying to learn the half axle- watched the videos, read the tutorials and so far just getting frustrated. Not sure of the kite set up, ideal wind speed, how hard to pop, how much slack and how much I have to move. Hopefully Iíll stumble onto the correct technique but right now Iím totally confused. Covering these issues in a trick challenge would be huge and get me going in the right direction.

   To be honest, Iíve only read the fade challenge and that was a quick read. Practicing at the field this week and holding the fade has helped me anticipate what the kite is going to do and react with softer inputs, keeping the kite more stable. I have yet to bring the kite down to the ground (does it count starting near the ground for 10 seconds and then going up??)  Another issue is Ė not really sure how to shoot a video as Iím usually flying alone and then not sure how to post the video?

           Just posting on this forum is a bit intimidating. Feel like I shouldnít post as Iím not a good trick flyer and I donít want to create another help me learn this trick topic but thatís what I really need.

   If the fade is the 3rd topic, it may be a bit early in the season for us Northern flyers to get involved.

             I hope you donít give up on the concept; we beginners can use all the help you can offer.


Dennis Foster

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Charles P
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« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2013, 09:52 PM »


  Now Iím trying to learn the half axle- watched the videos, read the tutorials and so far just getting frustrated. Not sure of the kite set up, ideal wind speed, how hard to pop, how much slack and how much I have to move. Hopefully Iíll stumble onto the correct technique but right now Iím totally confused. Covering these issues in a trick challenge would be huge and get me going in the right direction.

Another issue is Ė not really sure how to shoot a video as Iím usually flying alone and then not sure how to post the video?



 Sounds like you are coming up the same way I did. I too spent way too much time trying to learn with inferior kites, but we are both past that now!
 I'm still a beginner myself but am learning fast thanks to Norms challenges, helpful flyers at the field as well as reading the posts of others on this forum. Sorry to hear that you can not find someone who does trick flying.   Embarrassed
 
 Someone's pull is NOT another persons pop. This tends to be kite specific in my experience and you will just need to try both to see what the kite you are flying prefers.
 I wish I could do Jacobs ladder as well as you are describing! I can do 2 rungs ok, 3 not so much. As for the half axle, I really struggled with that one until I met someone at the field who tutored me.
 If I may administer my two cents on the half axle, I would say try practicing this trick in low to moderate winds.
  (I prefer to feel the kite pulling some, I suggest not trying this to close to the edge of the window)
 The next part is where I struggled for so long........ Forget the whole tug on the lower wing before initiating thing!! Maybe some kites need this to start but I have not flown one of those yet.
 Flying left to right, quickly flick your left wrist (like shaking a blanket) and *simultaneously* give slack with the right hand, as the kite rotates take up slack with both hands to exit stage left.   Wink

 *Note* Slack should be given simultaneously on the pull of the upper wing, not the initial slack.

 As for posting videos here, I don't have a clue as well but I know ya can post them to YouTube and post the link here.   Smiley 

 Lets hope Norm keeps the challenges going, so many of us can learn so much from them. What I find humorous is Norm always say's that he is not an accomplished flyer, yet he posts challenges of things I have either never seen or never seen taken to such a level. Seems like practice sessions for accomplished flyers to me!!   Cheesy
 
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Charles P
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« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2013, 10:03 PM »

Ooopps,

 Needed to add to my previous post.
 When giving slack for the half axle BOTH hands need to give slack. In my Left to Right example The left hand shakes the blanket, as the left hand pulls the right gives slack and as soon as the left hand is done pulling/popping (it IS more of a pop) the left hand needs to give immediate slack as well, then take up slack with both hands and exit stage left.
 As for how strong of your inputs need to be and how much you need to move, it all depends on how strong the winds are.
 In low to moderate winds you should be able to perform the half axle standing in place or with very minimal movement.
 If the winds are very light you may need to back peddle.
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RobB
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« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2013, 04:43 AM »

Hey Norm
        Iím not sure where you live but here in Buffalo NY, this is the first week of decent flying weather. Iíve been lurking on this forum the last three summers and just started checking out the forum for this flying season. When I saw the post with the trick challenge, it was like wow this could really be a big help. Then I read this post. I can understand you being frustrated about the lack of feed back, you had to spend a lot of time just writing up the challenges. I really hope you donít give up on the idea; already the fade challenge has made me a better flyer.

      Personally, Iím past the lawn dart stage but a true beginner to trick kite flying. Iíve got the DVDís, watched and down loaded the online videos and read everything I could find online. My biggest problem is, I fly at the best field in Western NY (on the Niagara River so we have clean air) and Iím the only one flying stunt kites. Thereís no one to show me how to fly or tell me what Iím doing wrong, itís all trial and mostly error. My first summer flying I spent watching Dodd Gross, learning the basics. I spent most of my second summer flying a new kite trying to learn how to ďpopĒ from the ground into a fade. Near the end of the summer, I read something online about petting a dog with a firm slow motion. It was like wow all this time following the DVDíS and their pop is someone elseís slow pull. Last summer I decided to spend the money and buy the Standard Widow maker- I still canít believe how the kite makes you look and feel like a better flyer. Felt like I had wasted the previous summer flying an inferior kite that was difficult to trick and really difficult to get into a fade. The Widow Maker turned out to be a fade machine and it also helped me learn how to stall properly (-?Huh). By the end of the summer I was concentrating on The Jacobís Ladder. Again my technique was way off; I was having a hard time with all aspects of the trick. I could do flic-flacs but with The Jacobís Ladder, I couldnít get the kite to flip over. Near the end of the season, for some reason I had to walk forward during the trick and the kite went over- it was then I realized I had to keep the kite floating. Again, more time wasted on trial and error. Yesterday I was out and was able to pull off three rungs of the ladder, with control and a feel for what the kite was doing- really was a neat feeling. Now Iím trying to learn the half axle- watched the videos, read the tutorials and so far just getting frustrated. Not sure of the kite set up, ideal wind speed, how hard to pop, how much slack and how much I have to move. Hopefully Iíll stumble onto the correct technique but right now Iím totally confused. Covering these issues in a trick challenge would be huge and get me going in the right direction.

   To be honest, Iíve only read the fade challenge and that was a quick read. Practicing at the field this week and holding the fade has helped me anticipate what the kite is going to do and react with softer inputs, keeping the kite more stable. I have yet to bring the kite down to the ground (does it count starting near the ground for 10 seconds and then going up??)  Another issue is Ė not really sure how to shoot a video as Iím usually flying alone and then not sure how to post the video?

           Just posting on this forum is a bit intimidating. Feel like I shouldnít post as Iím not a good trick flyer and I donít want to create another help me learn this trick topic but thatís what I really need.

   If the fade is the 3rd topic, it may be a bit early in the season for us Northern flyers to get involved.

             I hope you donít give up on the concept; we beginners can use all the help you can offer.


Dennis Foster


Hey Dennis...
I think there are a couple of others who fly up your way, Rudyy being one. Finding someone to fly with will help the learning curve tremendously. I'll be up your way at the end of the summer, when I'm there, I fly at the Niagara Reservoir... is there a better spot ?
I'd like to meet up with some local fliers, but my schedule is usually pretty tight when I'm up there. Last year I forgot my kites all together !   Sad
~Rob.
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