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Author Topic: Super SUL's...your imagination or real???  (Read 16309 times)
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obijuankenobe
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« on: June 09, 2009, 01:16 PM »

I am starting this thread in reaction to the 'claims' made regarding the 'super' SUL Fearless in another thread. 

I would love to read some real information about these SUL/sSUL kites, rather than 'it flies in the lightest of winds' or other relatively meaningless statements.  Not very many of us have flown together, so what this means to each of us is likely very different.  And I have heard this statement so many times  Roll Eyes.

With regard to the sSUL Fearless:  Any frame info?  Any material differences (other than lack of seams)?  Any real design changes (stand off length/position, sail depth/size/shape)?  I have yet to find a full sized kite that flies lower than the Cosmic Ghost, and even this kite still requires work until there is a detectable wind direction.  But there are plenty of kites that fly in 'the lightest of winds'.  My Sea Devil light (3PT/5PT) flies right down to < 2 mph as will my standard XTs, but they need SOME wind for sure.  I have seen Mayet cynique his standard XTs in < 2mph in Dieppe.  Quite alot is pilot dependent when it comes to low wind.

I'd like to suggest for the sake of this discussion that below 2mph is probably real SUL range.  The Ghost will have full pressure in this range without effort and fly in near zero wind if you are willing to move a bit.  The same can be said for the SD SUL in my hands, but tricking wasn't as pretty.  I also have a homemade Essence SUL that will hold it's own with the Ghost, just different tricks are there. 

All too often, folks bragging about SULs don't seem to realize that if you can determine the direction from which the wind is blowing, there is plenty of wind to fly, and loads of kites will fly.  If there is nothing else flying, then these pilots don't have an SUL.  It has little to do with the miracle of your particular kite. 

As far as real honest to goodness zero wind flying, if you are walking (or running) to keep the kite up in zero wind, then it's no better than a Ghost, SD sUL, or *insert latest name* SUL, all of which fly in zero wind if you are willing to move.  And if you say you're not at least walking in zero wind with a Fearless super duper SUL, then you are lying to yourself and us.   Angry

The exceptions to this are few, and are not strictly full sized trick kites.  The Synchro is amazing; the KiteHouse Sissy is not full sized. 

Comments, SUL kite recommendations, or contrary opinions invited.   Cool

obi
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ko
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« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2009, 01:59 PM »

i will be watching this discusion i am close to buying an inner space but i would like to hear what has to be said here. i own both a QPsul and a zephyr both for me are work in anything under 3 or 4 that is the lower fun range for my exile standard thanx for the post KO ps yeh ive takin the upper spreaders out yes i have moved the bridles up, all this does is make the kite fly since this is a family forum i will use the word poorly
« Last Edit: June 09, 2009, 02:07 PM by ko » Logged

have fun kurt
ko
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« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2009, 02:08 PM »

where did u go allen???
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have fun kurt
thief
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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2009, 02:43 PM »

a Kites Unlimited Isis will fly easily at 2mph and starts below that....full size ~8' or so....g force skinny...
2 piece of icky sail.....
i love mine for those days.....have flown it indoors and did not like how big it was....

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chilese
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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2009, 02:49 PM »

Once you get past a 2PT frame, you are in the SSUL range. And those kites (Breeze rods for example), the frame bends when you simply pull on the  lines.

The Inner Space is an SUL to me. So is the Vapor and the Synchro. And almost the Shadow.

Some of Betancourt's kites were in the SSUL range. Allen Carter could be more specific on the subject.
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JimB
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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2009, 02:49 PM »

Any discussion of super low wind flying has to take into account those kites of Yesteryear that truly had exceptional low wind capabilities. The current kites just do not have the same efficiency.

The current design paradigm requires kites to do a lot more in terms of rolling up, etc., that is in direct conflict with light wind flying of the sort where you just stand there and talk to your buddies, not that the older kites have no trick capabilities.

They just do not have it when it comes to some of the more esoteric moves.

Now, somebody cue up that Thor's Hammer vid..

I feel better now, don't you?

Carry On.

 Wink
« Last Edit: June 09, 2009, 04:16 PM by JimB » Logged
st3307
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« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2009, 02:49 PM »

Pro Dancer  SUL   been  around  for  years  will fly  in .5  with very lil movement  but   is  not a  very trick orianented  kite    is a  2 panel  kite  and  a  full  size wing
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rxburner
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« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2009, 03:07 PM »

Sherrell's S-SUL Fearless.
super skinny uppers, lowers, and spreaders.


Rx

Quote from KS Forum
"I am so used to the SUL & the L that I would have to say the S does not excel at any of the tricks. It just does them when the other models can't even stay in the air without running around. Inputs are different due to the lack of mass & line management is much more important. The cynique is the only trick that it can do that gives me pause.The sudden stopping & reversing directiobin without hesitation really torques the frame. Flick Flacks, slots, backspins, comets, cascades, flying while rolled up, snap lazy, inverse---no problem."


Obi
I have both the Cosmic TC Ghost and the SUL Fearless. The Fearless flies in lower wind than the Ghost. I flew the S-SUL Fearless indoors breifly, but have not tried it outdoors.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2009, 03:21 PM by rxburner » Logged
ezme6
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« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2009, 03:16 PM »

are we talking about "it feels like about 1 or 2mph" or "it says on the wind meter between 1 and 2mph" or less? Smiley

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sbrown
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« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2009, 03:22 PM »

Quote
Sherrell's S-SUL Fearless.
super skinny uppers, lowers, and spreaders.

Although it might seem the opposite, Skinny SUL spars (11 grams)  are heavier than the Skinny UL spars (7.5 grams). Avia spec page
The Skinny SUL are closer to Sky Shark 3PTs.
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chilese
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« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2009, 03:23 PM »

Always a pleasure skb™ when you add a valid reference point.
________________________________

1 mph is just under 1.5 ft/sec.

I particularly like it when people describe the wind at 1/2 mph. They better be holding up a cigarette and watching the smoke to see that subtle a breeze.  Angry
« Last Edit: June 09, 2009, 03:26 PM by chilese » Logged

John Chilese: Las Vegas, NV
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sbrown
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« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2009, 03:26 PM »

I drop a goose down feather from shoulder height.
If it hits my shoe, it's 0 wind.
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st3307
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« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2009, 03:26 PM »

    that  is  how  I do  it  John   cig   smoke  and  the   direction  it  drifts Cool  because  you  are  very  right    you can not feel it  on   your  neck  or face  that  light
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thief
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« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2009, 03:59 PM »

Quote
Sherrell's S-SUL Fearless.
super skinny uppers, lowers, and spreaders.

Although it might seem the opposite, Skinny SUL spars (11 grams)  are heavier than the Skinny UL spars (7.5 grams). Avia spec page
The Skinny SUL are closer to Sky Shark 3PTs.


yep the SUL sticks are "Super" "Ultra Lights".....a tiny bit beefier.....and thus a bit heavier too.........too bad Kurt called them SUL sticks....sort of confounding.....
r
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Geoffrey Platt
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« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2009, 04:11 PM »

I'd have to say the the Pro Wren is within the "SSUL" area as well. It's as light as a feather and has no problem flying in the lightest of winds. Actually anything over 2 mph and it'll fall apart Smiley
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Geoffrey Platt
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