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Author Topic: Attaching bulk line to a hoop  (Read 1417 times)
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appleb
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« on: May 17, 2013, 08:22 AM »

What's the best way to attach bulk line to an empty hoop?

I'm thinking of making a loop and then a larkshead to attach the line to the hoop (imagine the pigtail being the hoop).  Would this be okay or is there a better way?

In terms of the final knot strength, does it matter how large I make the initial loop with the overhand knot?




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MtnFlyer
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« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2013, 03:27 PM »

The method you mention is the easiest, though a slip knot is easy and would work fine, too.

The knot strength is not a factor in that you should never get to the end while you're flying. The friction of the loops on the hoop will offset the pull of the kite. Of course if you're not hand-flying the kite, the anchor will be taking the pull.
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« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2013, 03:47 PM »

Make sure when you wind in the line that the hoop isn't getting

compressed by a taut line wrapped around it.

Many wraps around a reel can cause the hoop to split if the line
is under strong tension.  Shocked
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MtnFlyer
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« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2013, 06:21 PM »

Make sure when you wind in the line that the hoop isn't getting

compressed by a taut line wrapped around it.

Many wraps around a reel can cause the hoop to split if the line
is under strong tension.  Shocked

John makes a good point. I almost always bring my SLKs down first then wind in the line around the hoop. Otherwise I pull it in and, for each arm reach, wind the slack around the hoop.
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Bob
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« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2013, 08:16 PM »

Also, the line should come off the spool in the same way it was wound. Otherwise there will be twists in the line. But this usually is not a big deal.
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mikeb
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2013, 06:13 PM »

To me the easiest way to attach the line to the hoop is to make a small loop like in your first picture, then pull what ever amount of line you need to go around the hoop and tighten by a few turns winding the bulk line on, that method allows you to remove the line and put it on a rim of a car of you want. Like pulling your belt through its buckle, you can adjust your belt your, depends on how much you just ate.
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red sweater
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« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2013, 11:50 AM »

The knot strength is not a factor in that you should never get to the end while you're flying.

Oops. Grin
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appleb
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« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2013, 11:53 AM »

In a related question, are there any tricks to measuring out a certain amount of line? I have some 1000ft lengths of line, but I only want to put 500ft on the hoop.
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thief
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« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2013, 12:06 PM »

you could easily just fold it in half...holding the two bitter ends to each other than slowly pulling both lines through your hands evenly until you get the the bend at the middle...
does the length need to be exactly 500'?

Personally I gave up awhile back on flying super high......i am more known to break a  500' line into 3 or 4 close to 100' lengths...i like being able to see my kites and the details...plus then also they are closer to the ground in case of a need to pull them down quick OR if they break free and decide to leave....

i do have 500' on my Ramlal Tien Oiseau because there is nothing else out there like seeing that 11' wide white bird soaring at the end of the line...but then that is in 1-2mph wind only.....
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madhabitz
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« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2013, 12:13 PM »

In a related question, are there any tricks to measuring out a certain amount of line? I have some 1000ft lengths of line, but I only want to put 500ft on the hoop.
One thing you can do is to plant two stakes 50ft (or 25ft) apart. Wind all of your line onto the stakes, then mark each loop, on each end, with a marking pen (Magic Marker). Whether or not you are dividing up line for separate winders, those marks come in handy from time to time.
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appleb
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« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2013, 02:30 PM »

does the length need to be exactly 500'?

It don't need exactly 500 feet, but I want to be sure to stay within legal limits for sure.

Quote
One thing you can do is to plant two stakes 50ft (or 25ft) apart. Wind all of your line onto the stakes, then mark each loop, on each end, with a marking pen (Magic Marker). Whether or not you are dividing up line for separate winders, those marks come in handy from time to time.

I never thought of marking the line, but I can see how that can be useful.
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boomertype
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« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2013, 02:51 PM »

500ft, two kite stakes 10 ft apart, attach the line to one, wrap it to the next one and back. Do it till you have 500 ft. You do the math.
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thief
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« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2013, 05:32 PM »

does the length need to be exactly 500'?

It don't need exactly 500 feet, but I want to be sure to stay within legal limits for sure.

Quote
One thing you can do is to plant two stakes 50ft (or 25ft) apart. Wind all of your line onto the stakes, then mark each loop, on each end, with a marking pen (Magic Marker). Whether or not you are dividing up line for separate winders, those marks come in handy from time to time.

I never thought of marking the line, but I can see how that can be useful.


Legal limit is 500 vertical feet with a iirc 5# payload...so...depending on the kite you are flying and the angle it is at will give you a different line length.....
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madhabitz
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« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2013, 08:11 PM »

Legal limit is 500 vertical feet with a iirc 5# payload...so...depending on the kite you are flying and the angle it is at will give you a different line length.....
Hold on thar Barney Oldfield! At various times I've read that the limit is 150, 200, 250 feet and probably other numbers as well. 500 is a lot more than anything I've seen before. And what's the 5# payload thing?
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TBHinPhilly
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« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2013, 03:31 AM »

See this link for the officially published regulations from the Government Printing Office (now online too).  http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.15&idno=14

Subpart A starts out with the applicability of "this part" and then states it is applicable to kites weighing more than 5 lbs intended to be flown from a cable or rope. So this subpart applies only to kites weighing more than 5lbs. There is the further applicability restriction of the "cable or rope" flight - but because we all say flying line (not string) and kites over 5lbs are probably on 500lb line or better - I would not want to be arguing over whether my 1200 lb dyneema line is a rope or not - I think a reasonable tryer of fact would find that to be a rope.

What does Subpart A do with respect to kites weighing more than 5lbs? 101.5 prohibits their flight in prohibited or restricted areas unless permission is sought and obtained. 101.7 prohibits their use anywhere if the present a hazard.

Although it would seem like these requirements should apply to any kite anywhere (and that is written on a number of kite sites), the regulation does not have that effect. For those that have been there, think about kite flying on the US National Mall around the Washington Monument in Washington, D.C. All of that area is restricted airspace because of the Whitehouse, Congress, etc. Yet no permission to fly a kite is required. And the only restriction on kite flying on the mall is no manja allowed - and that's a Park Service rule.


Subpart B is a different part. So the applicablity provision of A do not apply, and indeed B has its own applicability provision. It applies to "kites" - no definition given - and no weight limit. So comparing and contrasting to A - Subpart B applies to kites of any weight.

What does Subpart B do with respect to any kite?

(1) No flight more than 150 feet above the surface of the earth unless, at least 24 hours before beginning the flight notice is given to the FAA

- where notice is given, flights between sunrise and sunset require lines have colored pennants or streamers attached at not more than 50 foot intervals beginning at 150 feet above the surface of the earth and visible for at least one mile


(2) No flight less than 500 feet from the base of any cloud;

(3) No flight more than 500 feet above the surface of the earth;

(4) No flight from an area where the ground visibility is less than three
miles; or

(5) No flight within five miles of the boundary of any airport.


So 500 feet is the limit - but only where notice is given to the FAA.  Note that this is just notice -- you do not have to get an approval.  The FAA uses the information to publish an Airman's Notice warning planes about the activity - well they are supposed to but I have not found many examples of that on the internet - perhaps because there aren't many notices given. 

The regulations do have an exception for giving notice - if you are flying within 250 feet of a building (i.e. sheilded structure) then no matter how high the building is you can fly your kite if you stay below the rooftop and do not obscure any airplane lighting. No guarantee on what winds you will get - or what the owner of the building may have to say about the flying.
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